[00:00:00] Natalie: Hi, everyone. It's Natalie ask my kids and they will tell you one of my favorite mantras is this. There is never pain without some type of purpose. Yes. We all have hardships different levels for all of us, but we all have pain that tenet times seem undeniably horrible. And we often don't know how to get past it. Sometimes we can't see the light at the end of that dark tunnel today. I want to go deeper into getting through hardships. My guest is an expert in this. Karen rockin is a happiness expert. She's the creator of purpose girl. It's a movement to empower purpose driven living.

[00:00:37] Carin's background started actually in the corporate world, but through hardship, she found a new. And a new passion. And you're going to learn about that today. We are going to talk about post-traumatic growth. Have you ever heard of that and how to use pain and what research says about pain, how to handle anger, how to rid your body of those very deep seated feelings.

[00:01:01] Sometimes they are of anger or of hurt being vulnerable. We're going to talk about that as well and why it matters, why you need to be vulnerable. And so much more if you haven't yet done. So would you please take just a minute, leave me a review and whatever app you are listening to this podcast on, and also be sure to subscribe to the podcast.

[00:01:22] So you will get a notification when new episodes come out before we get started today, I want to let you know that if you are going through something difficult, there is a way out. And I hope this episode helps you see that let's get started.

[00:01:35] Karen joins me now. And this topic, Karen, I think this applies to pretty much everyone in the world. I mean, some of us have deeper pain than others, but at some point we have to turn that pain into

[00:01:47] Carin: purpose. Absolutely. And especially after the last couple of years that we've been through. I think we're all sitting with some pain and we have this opportunity.

[00:01:57] Anytime we experienced trauma, whether it is the trauma of COVID in isolation or people being ill, or, you know, we know from the research that the bulk of people have experienced some sort of trauma in life, whether it is, as you said, a big P or T you know, like abuse or divorce or rape, I mean, horrible things or.

[00:02:19] The kids didn't pick you. You were in fifth grade and they didn't pick you to be on the soccer team or whatever. It might be me.

[00:02:25] Carin: We're all sitting with this and we all have heard of post traumatic stress disorder, right? When the pain takes us into depression, takes us into anxiety. And that is so valid and we have not as much heard of something called post-traumatic. I have not heard that.

[00:02:45] Natalie: Is it something that you came up with or is

[00:02:47] Carin: that real? Nope. These are two research, two researchers Calhoun into dashi and they started to really say. It's happening with people who take the biggest pain of their life. Someone like candy Lightner whose daughter died when a drunk driver killed her, when her daughter was only 13 and no one would've blamed candy for if she had just gone back to bed for the rest of her life and just drank a bunch of wine and, you know, gave up.

[00:03:16] But instead she created mothers against drunk driving. Oh, wow. Yeah. Right. Which, which is a name that we all know and has helped hundreds of thousands of people to not experience the same thing that she did. And so the question is people like that, what what's going on with them and what we know from research and it's so resonates with me because this has been my life story, which I'll share a little bit of that we have the opportunity we can say.

[00:03:44] What do I want to do with this? We don't get to choose when something really crappy happens to us, right? We don't get to choose the poop. I don't know if I can swear on your podcast. We don't get to choose the poop that happens in our life, but we can turn it into fertilizer and we can turn it into it being the greatest wisdom of our life.

[00:04:02] And I'll tell you, Natalie, I'm so obsessed with turning pain into purpose because it's really the only way I've ever been able to make sense of my own experience. You know, I'm sitting here 47 and you know, I have a one and a half year old, but before that I didn't even start trying to get pregnant until I was 40.

[00:04:21] And then I spent five years of infertility, two miscarriages, a year of IVF driving, all of that and the pain and the pain, the pain. And after the second miscarriage, I was already a happiness expert. I was already on Sirius XM radio. They called me their happiness guru on their morning show for women.

[00:04:40] Right. But when I was 43 and went through that second miscarriage, I was in so much pain. I said to my husband, I don't want to live anymore. Like I already have the career. I wanted empowering women to live their best lives and be happy and go after their dreams and their purpose. And so I did all the tools that I do crying, hitting pillows, meditating, being with friends, doing a lot around mindset.

[00:05:05] And I just, just kept saying. What else am I here to birth? Like, show me how to turn this, this pain into purpose. And I had a vision Natalie of women all over the world who were also in depression, who were also experiencing some sort of trauma or just feeling like crap, because we know that women are twice as likely to be depressed as men.

[00:05:29] And I had a vision of a globe with, you know, women in. Depression or just not, or just not feeling great. And I had a vision of women coming together in sisterhood because I had had so much sisterhood, so many women supporting me during that miscarriage that I saw groups of women coming together to learn happiness skills and to like support each other in it, and to like learn the positivity and all the things that you teach here.

[00:05:53] Carin: Like all the things that we do. And I said, I know what I have to do. And I created women's happiness day. Yeah, October 18th, which is the anniversary. Oh, that miscarriage. I launched an effort three, four years ago to have volunteers in different places, all over the world who would hold small groups of women.

[00:06:15] Some of them were five and some of them were 50 where they would get together. And I created a curriculum for women to be able to learn these different tools, to be able to share their biggest dreams, be able to turn their mindset, like all of it. And we had that first year 99 events. In on six continents, I think it was like 20 different countries.

[00:06:37] Wow. It's spread like wildfire, like wildfires. That's how much it's needed. Exactly. And it was like, you know, it, it didn't take away the pain of the miscarriage, but it was like, oh, so that's why I went through this. Right. It was to create something. And it didn't mean I gave up on my dreams to have a baby, because then I did what I always did do another aspect of pain to purpose.

[00:06:59] So one is, can we find, can we find the meaning in it? Is there something that it can teach us about. The wisdom that we have to share with the world and what we can bring uniquely to the world,

[00:07:10]

[00:07:13] Natalie: Hey everyone. It's Natalie. I am excited to let you know that I'm opening up spaces for collaboration and advertising and sponsorship on this podcast. And on my YouTube channel, if you're a brand looking to grow in the wellness family or mindfulness spaces, I would love to collaborate with you. You can find the link to get in touch with me in the show notes, and you can always find out more about what I'm up to on Natalie tisdale.com.

[00:07:39]

[00:07:42] Carin:

[00:07:42] you know, and the other is I didn't let it get me down or deter me. I just said, well, what else is possible?

[00:07:48] And then I started researching all the different ways that I could have a baby, whether it was adoption or egg donor, or embryo donor. And ultimately I decided on an egg donor and now I have my. 20 months old baby. And I had him at 45. And so we always have this opportunity to take, it's like, we're all going to have pain.

[00:08:07] And it's really a matter of what do we do with that? Yeah.

[00:08:09] Natalie: Let me ask you this and taking one step back, because what I have found in interviewing people, thousands of people over the years about painful things and, you know, in the news business, those. Are people who have lost children and accidents and you know, this just deep trauma, I want to ask you about identifying that because I think for a lot of people.

[00:08:31] They've gotten really good at ignoring it,

[00:08:34] Carin: shoving it down,

[00:08:35] Natalie: ignoring it, myself included. Like I just don't know. I don't wanna deal with that. I'm just not gonna deal with it. And I know there's danger in that. So what would you say, is it easier to just ignore it until you're ready to deal with it? Is it identifying it, writing about it, journaling it like, I mean, I know from childhood and that people have pain, they're

[00:08:58] Carin: ignoring.

[00:08:59] Yes. Yeah. I mean, so something I always say to my clients is if you sweep shit under the rug long enough, eventually it's going to start to stink. If we ignore something, you think you put it on the shelf, but you don't because it will just come back in other ways, right? Like the trauma in our bodies and this for me too, you know I was just talking about this with my therapist yesterday, trauma for when I was a little girl coming back as blaming myself or thinking I'm not good enough.

[00:09:30] Right. So it comes back or taking it out on our partner to, I mean, it, it comes because it's, it stays in us.

[00:09:37] Carin: And so we think that it's best to ignore it. And one of my favorite, believe it or not happiness and purpose tools is to actually face it, head on through our body. So when we experienced something, like, let's just take the pandemic because we've all just been through this.

[00:09:54] Yeah. And it was isolating and it was frustrating. And people might've been like angry that their plans were canceled or that, you know, whatever the thing might be, what I actually teach all my clients to do is we're gonna get. Because we also have been told, don't get angry, don't get right. And it's like, if we just ignore it, it's going to come out.

[00:10:12] You get angry at yourself or you get angry at everybody around you or you all of it. We wrote, we we've come road Rangers or whatnot. And so what I actually teach us to do is like emotional release. So I will get my clients together and we will share all the things. That are, are causing us pain that are making us feel sad or angry.

[00:10:34] And then I will turn on the radius song and we will take pillows and we will take, and we will just like hit those pillows and we will get it out of our bodies and doing it together is not as some people might be like, that sounds way too scary, but it's not as scary because you're doing it together and you're releasing it from your body.

[00:10:52] And then once it's released people say, I mean, I'll just teach clients that I can a two-minute temper tantrum. You know, I have a little, I have a toddler. He has a lot of time. So our bodies, right, our bodies are designed that when we're, when we're in pain, when we face trauma, our fear, our bodies are designed to be in fight or flight, but what, or freeze and so many of us freeze or put it away.

[00:11:18] We have to actually have the full cycle in order to be able to move through it. And the full cycle includes the running away or the fighting and getting it out of your body. Do you think that you

[00:11:30] Natalie: have to physically do that? Because I also think for a lot of people, it's hard to be vulnerable. Like I I'm speaking probably for myself, but the vulnerability of it, like to admit you went through something people don't know about.

[00:11:44] So

[00:11:45] Carin: Yeah. Do you

[00:11:45] Natalie: think, can you admit it to yourself and write about it and then deal with it? Or do you think it's important to have the conversations or the therapy

[00:11:54] Carin: or the pillow fight? I think it's, I think it's absolutely critical. And one example is doing this, you know, in a group like I do hitting the pillows, another examples, you know, I just bought a whole group of, one of my group programs.

[00:12:06] I bought them something called an angry. Mm, just to have a space to like get it out, because if we hold onto it and you can do the same thing with a worry journal, sometimes just writing it out and it is it's, it's vulnerable and it's scary. And you might think, I don't want to go there, but here's the thing.

[00:12:21] And we know this from research. If you don't actually go there. it's there anyway. Yeah. That's growing cancer growing. Yeah. Yes. And it will just speak to you louder and louder and louder until you deal with it. And so that's why I like to do things in safe spaces, whether it is that, you know, and again, it has to be with people who are safe to you or it's in your own private space, but right now, This is what happened, and this is how I'm feeling.

[00:12:45] And this is so hard. We have very few places that allow us to say, this is hard. We think, you know, I have my master's degree in positive psychology, right? The science of happiness and people think, oh, that just means being positive, putting a happy face on it. If we just put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

[00:13:03] Yeah. Yeah. So the only way, and I know this is hard, right? Like I am not saying this is easy. The only way is actually to acknowledge. This is how I'm really feeling. Because otherwise we do, we take it out and then it, you know, we end up projecting it onto the, the person, you know, the customer service person at Verizon or so true.

[00:13:24] Natalie: It comes out in your whoa, that was not me. He said to me recently, and I thought this was an interesting point, and this might be an old fashioned way of thinking of it, of why do you need to dwell on. Something that you can't change. And so talking about it, writing it, seeing a therapist and just like talking and talking and talking about it, and this person said, I really don't want to dwell on that.

[00:13:46] To me, it was kind of a way of going, I'm gonna shove it away. Yeah. So there's a point where put it in your words, journal, bring it up, then

[00:13:54] Carin: you can move on. That's just it. And so the, the first piece is to somehow like, get it out, acknowledge, you know what? I'll give you an example. So. And then the second piece is now, what do we want to do?

[00:14:07] Okay. Let's talk about that. Let's move on to that. Yeah. Right. And so like an example is I teach a class every year called goddess on purpose and it's to like, figure out what is my purpose, or to actually have the courage to, to go for your purpose. And a woman was in the class last year. Corporate executive 30 year executive success, success, success, and during the pain to purpose week, which I call wisdom, that is our week of wisdom.

[00:14:36] She shared something that had happened to her when she was younger, that she had never shared with anyone. She couldn't believe it. She shared. And she said, she felt like a 20 pound weight was like, she was here and she's like, I never thought I would share this with anyone, my whole life, because to her, it was embarrassing.

[00:14:50] How could I have let that happen? But she felt safe. Right? We were in like week six or seven out of nine weeks. So it was, and once she relieved it, then it was like, and I said, okay, now what wisdom did you get from that? What would you want to tell another woman who was 20 years old? Yeah. And she instantly knew, well, I would want to tell them this, it's not your fault.

[00:15:14] You can get through anything. You're powerful. You're capable. Okay, great. Now let's actually turn that. Tell that to, so it's like, it instantly gave her power around the situation. Yeah. Wow. That is, and that's why I'm so obsessed with pain to purpose, right? Like, so my own personal story, I have. Had this idea.

[00:15:36] I was in corporate America. Wasn't happy, was rising. The ladder knew that that wasn't for me, but I'm like, I'm supposed to live a purpose, but what is it? And lot of long story short, a lot of work. I was like, I am here to empower. To go for their dreams, but I wasn't doing it myself. I was too afraid. Right.

[00:15:56] What if I feel, oh my gosh, why don't we do that? The whole thing until one day, like eight years after I had this idea. I was walking home from a bad blind date, 10 o'clock at night in Cleveland, Ohio. And I walk into my condominium building and I suddenly feel hot breath on my neck. And I turn around and I am nose to nose with a young man, and he's looking into my eyes and I think he's going in maybe to see his aunt.

[00:16:24] I don't know. And then he looks down at my stomach and he pulls a gun. And Natalie, I scream. I fall on the floor and I'm going, please don't hurt me. Please. Don't hurt me. And now I look up and the gun is pointed at my left temple. And I'm like, oh my God. My life is over. My life is over. And I had this other voice that said, oh no, you were born for purpose.

[00:16:41] And so I made a promise to myself, that woman, I said, if I live, I promise I will pursue that purpose no matter what. And just then Natalie, the man took my purse and he ran. And so in that moment I was shaken. I had to go through, I had to go through all the therapy. I had to go through all the right, like, and the purpose that I took from that moment was that we never know.

[00:17:06] We never know what tomorrow will bring. We never know what tonight will bring. And so we need to be living fully. Now we need to be living those dreams now, no matter what, and it doesn't mean you have to like, quit your job and go do a thing. Like I started while I was in my old job and you know, what is a first step?

[00:17:22] And one of the things I wanted to do was to coach people. So in my corporation, right. People in my department, would anyone like a separate coaching relationship with me? And my boss was doing a lot of speeches and I wanted to give speeches. So I said, can I do one of your speeches? Like I help people figure this out all the time.

[00:17:37] How do we start now? Or even just figuring out what your dream or your purpose is, but like that could have caused. And it did cause trauma in my body. And I meet owning that as like, oh no, that's the thing. That's actually gonna power. It's this powerful choice that we can make. And then I turned that into the lesson that I'm here to teach the world.

[00:18:01] And I think that this is how we get to choose. Like I'm a firm believer that the two most powerful words in the world are I choose, we don't choose what happens to us, but we choose what we do with it. So, so powerful. And

[00:18:16] Natalie: I just hate for anyone to think. I have to wait

[00:18:18] Carin: for the.

[00:18:20] Natalie: You don't like, and I'm with you after leaving my corporate job.

[00:18:25] Right. And skip the scariest thing I've ever done. That was security to me, but I didn't do it overnight. Like you said, build into your purpose, just start

[00:18:35] Carin: thinking about. Exactly exactly. And anything, you know, I don't, I often tell people I do what I do, so you don't have to be robbed at gunpoint. Like, I don't want you, you know, I give a lot of toxic corporations.

[00:18:49] In fact, I was the keynote speaker at Amazon's international women's day on March 6, 20, 20. So like the minute before the lockdown. Right. Wow. And I started a lot of my talks by saying. If there was a gun pointed at your head right now, what would you regret? Never having done? Because, you know, I don't want you to have to get to that moment of awakening.

[00:19:12] I want everyone listening to this and everyone in the world to say, this is just listening to, this is my moment of awakening. Just hearing that Natalie left, what many people consider a dream job? But because it wasn't aligned anymore with your soul and you figured out what was, or because Karen was robbed at gunpoint, I don't want to get there.

[00:19:32] So, you know, what is something that I, I would love to do and it doesn't have to be big and huge and creating podcasts. It can be, but for some people it might just be a shift. And this has happened with a lot of my clients in how do you talk around you about your body in front of your kids? Yeah. Or how do you show your kids?

[00:19:51] You know, You're pursuing you. We tell kids all the time copra. So your dreams. So your kids just seeing you, if you've wanted to write a book, pull out the computer and just say, oh, mommy's typing a sentence of her book right now. Like it doesn't have to be big and huge. It can be in these steps, but we start being that change now.

[00:20:10] Natalie: Yeah, let's talk about the positive psychology a little bit more. I am just all about focusing on what's good in the moment. I was just, I was just having a conversation with my 21 year old daughter on the phone before we started. And she's a collegiate athlete and she's got a big game coming up.

[00:20:28] And so she was talking through something and whatever, and I said, you know, all you can do is focus on right now. All you can do is focus on the moment.

[00:20:36]

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[00:21:48]

[00:21:52] Natalie: How does that? I don't have the experience you do and the education you do in positive psychology. But how important is that in, I've heard it said before that you can't have fear and gratitude at the same time you have

[00:22:05] Carin: to choose.

[00:22:06] Yeah. Well, your brain will, your brain. We'll choose. Right. So right. Our brains will control us if we don't try to control them a little bit. Right. That give me some strategies. Yeah. Our brains are wired actually for negativity. It's called negativity bias and that's because it's survival mechanism. So most people's brains go all the time, worrying about why did I say that in a meeting?

[00:22:28] Or why was she such a jerk or about the future? What if this happens? What if that happens? And we know that all of that just causes, you can feel how it feels in your body. It causes. Right. And so in the coming back in this moment, what do I choose to think about? What do I choose to choose? And I'm not saying any of this is easy, right?

[00:22:47] It sounds simple, but this is like, I got to practice this every day. What I was doing before our podcast interview is I was sitting at a coffee shop, journaling out my gratitudes and journaling. Right. Because yesterday I found my brain going into all the dark places of the past and my future and everything else.

[00:23:05] And so it was like, no sit. And let's like really feel in our bodies. What is so good right now? And I'm like, I'm at this cafe, I'm drinking a honey oat latte. I got a large to treat myself, you know, there are Palm trees all around me. I'm in Florida and like, oh, let me, what am I savoring and gratitude.

[00:23:23] Being in Florida, cause we're here for a whole month. Like, Ooh, my baby on the beach. And when I say, what do you do with the ocean, with the waves? He says, jump like, so we can start bringing that in. And it's, it's, it's the most important thing, you know, we know that because our why our brains are wired for negativity.

[00:23:42] We know that you need it's much stronger than the positive. So you actually need multiple positives to overcome every negative.

[00:23:49] Natalie: So as soon as the negative starts finding its way in which it does, but how do you turn that around? You know, you, you're fearful, your heart starts beating and you have a meeting that's coming up and all you can think about is how it might go wrong or something like that.

[00:24:02] Yeah. Talk about

[00:24:03] Carin: turning it around in the moment. Yeah. So in the moment, what I always do is I place my hand on my body first because when we were a little babies, most of us, not all, but the majority of us were held when we were afraid or we were crying. So it's really important that you bring it into your body and you have a moment touching your face, touching your heart because you were held.

[00:24:22] So your body knows that as a calm down in a cool down reaction, the second thing I do is to find my breath and to take a breath. Yep. And then what I do is I try to identify what thought am I having right now? Because every thought we have these two, a feeling and every feeling we have leads to a behavior.

[00:24:40] And so if you can identify the, this fear, then there are a couple of tools. You know, one is something called worst case, best case, most likely. So I will literally say, well, what's the worst that can happen. And you might say, well, the worst that would happen is I'll lose my job. Okay. Well, it's the worst that, that happens.

[00:24:58] What's going to happen. Well, my family won't be able to eat. If that happens, what's the worst will happen. We'll be under a bridge, you know, and living in cardboard boxes. Okay. Now what's the percent likelihood that you would ever let that happen? Oh, well I would never let that happen. I would go get a job at McDonald's before.

[00:25:13] Okay. Right. So these are things that we can do. And then I'd say, well, what's the best thing that would happen? Well, They give me a promotion or I lose my job and I get a better job. And so we can balance that out and then say, well, what's the most likely the most likely thing that's going to happen is that I'll be fine.

[00:25:29] And my job is fine. Or the most likely thing is, you know, they are doing downsizing. So let me start, let me think of a strategy right now to start getting ahead and seeing what other jobs are out there. Just that kind of thing. That's like actually one of my favorite tools can really, you know, talk about a pain into purpose.

[00:25:45] Okay. We're not going to ignore that. We have this. I know we want to go to LA, but no, let me face it head on. You're allowed to feel it. Sometimes I do. When I got a lot of fear, you can see what I'm doing. I shake shaken out of my body. I'm like, right. Cause our body, again, there's the fight flight I've got to do.

[00:26:03] I will scream. I will let it out. I might cry. Like I will let it out of my body and then like, okay, now let me have a moment of calm. And now how do I want to think about it? It's incredible. I taught a class last night where I said, how many of you, what if in the negative? What if I fail? What if I get rejected?

[00:26:21] What about everybody? Right. I had 50 women on the call. They're all raising their hand. And then I said, how many of you, what if then in the positive, like, okay, what if I fail. but then there's something even better that comes along. What if I succeed? What if I succeed? Right. That's the easy one, right?

[00:26:36] That is what we want to, what if in the positive, and you can even take the worst case and turn it into someone's positive. I was sharing that. I I'm starting a second business with three of my friends and we were holding a retreat in Miami last weekend and no one came. We didn't sell one ticket and we are, we all have thriving businesses doing this.

[00:26:56] We all. And it was like, no one wanted to be with us. And there was a moment of embarrassment. I can't let anyone know that people think who's going to want to ever work with me or come on a retreat if they know this. And then we decided, you know what, we're going to get together anyway. And we're going to say, what did we learn from this?

[00:27:13] And what else is possible? And wait, what if we succeed at something better? And so we sat down and we, and we like really did heart storming and brainstorming, like really what's our bigger vision. And we came up with something so much better. And so it was like, whoa, thank you, everyone for not coming because that.

[00:27:30] A better opportunity to serve you and serve the world. So, you know, and I use that as an example with my class last night, like, listen, I still have quote unquote failures. I'm still afraid you are to Natalie, right? As much as what successes you had. And in the moment we can calm ourselves down, we can shake it out, we can calm down and then we can do some of these mindset tools.

[00:27:54] And I happen to love the worst case and the best. You know, and the, what if thing in the positive? Like what if this, okay, so, you know, this person, this relationship is ending well, what if I have an incredible, better relationship that's coming and what would I like that to look like? And how do I want to feel in a relationship and what would be, you know, really yummy for me to experience right now.

[00:28:16] And wow. What might be fun about dating again? We have to be the ones in control of our minds or else our minds totally run us ragged. Yeah. And it's a huge part of pain to purpose, you know, because we can take everything and turn it into purpose. And each

[00:28:31] Natalie: of those things that you have mentioned. Often include some type of loss from a relate, like you just mentioned the relationship, the job, the, whatever it might be, but all of a sudden it allows you to rethink

[00:28:44] Carin: that and get your retreat that you just mentioned.

[00:28:46] There was a

[00:28:47] Natalie: loss there, but it grew into something bigger. So to know that loss often means grow. Yeah, right.

[00:28:56] Carin: Exactly. Exactly. And you know, when there is a loss, it's important to have the grief moment, like it's important to have the cry or the temper tantrum. Why did this happen? Hey, you know, but loss just me.

[00:29:09] It's like, okay. There was something important to me here. Yeah. Okay. So you're, if you're grieving the relationship. Being in connection is important to me. Love is important to me. Okay. Let me do something with that. Yeah. So that's what we want to, I would never say to ignore the feeling. We acknowledge the feeling.

[00:29:32] We work it out of our body in whatever way, whether it's writing therapists work with a coach, and then there is the, I choose moment.

[00:29:40] Natalie: Oh, I've learned so much. We could talk for hours. I know another topic. Let's come up with for another podcast. Cause I think we picked them up with many and are, and that our audiences have the same issues.

[00:29:53] You know, we have the same things, we're all working on and I love what you're doing. I love your day that you've created and I want to be a part of it. So tell everybody how we can learn and be a part of that and

[00:30:04] Carin: find more. Thank you. Thank you. So yeah, just go to purpose girl.com and you find confined everything about me, or you can find me on social, a Karen Rakhine.

[00:30:14] It's spelled kind of funny and odd. I'm sure it's in your show notes. C a R I N R O C K I N D. And you know, two things I'll mention. I have a Facebook group, it's purpose girls, Facebook group, and we're almost 5,000 women strong. And every day we post about. Celebrating yourself. I mean, that's a huge thing I love teaching is like, we're also critical to ourselves.

[00:30:37] I love teaching. What have you celebrate something about you every day? Right? And sisterhood, what if you celebrate another woman? I I'm big into women. If you're a man or a binary, non binary, human, whatever you are, celebrate another human every day, those kinds of things. And then I got us on purpose course is, I don't know when this is launching is coming up.

[00:30:53] So if anyone wants to learn how to turn their pain into purpose or what their purpose is, that's a goddess on purpose, core stuff.

[00:30:59] Natalie: Wonderful. We will put all of that in the show notes. So people coming find you, and thanks so much, enjoy your time in the sunshine and with your baby in the sand. Jumping in the water.

[00:31:09] Sounds glorious.

[00:31:11] Carin: We are. Thank you so much, Natalie.