141: A three-step process to help you with anxiety and depression with Dr. Kim D’Eramo

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Natalie

Kim, thank you so much for joining me. I feel like as a young person, as a young adult, I didn't hear so many people having issues with anxiety and depression, but it is so prevalent today.

Kim D'Eramo

There's a lot of major factors playing into that. One is I know as a parent, I really wasn't aware of little layers of urgency I was carrying, which wouldn't be a conscious fear necessarily or even anxiety. But the way I was going about my life, there was like a level of urgency and intensity. And my kids, I have two kids, were the ones that kind of reflected that back to me. And usually kids are amplifiers.

So they're going to sort of like 10X, whatever layers are there that you may be unconscious of as a parent and react. You know, it's very disturbing to their system. The other major factor is as we accelerate as human beings, we are increasing in consciousness. We're realizing the real value of being connected within ourselves, being authentic, being honest being a loving person, the body and our physiology registers that. So whether we're consciously aware of that or we're not, our physiology registers that. And as we've come along, new generations being born are more and more sensitive, not because that's some kind of pathology or something, but because we are meant to live more and more according to that truth, the truth that we are connected, that we are nurtured and provided for.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, yeah. And talk about sweeping under the rug. That was such a thing when you think of baby boomers and you think of these hardships. It was like, oh, we don't talk about our hardships. And so in a way, it's like talking about it is the first way of dealing with it, but talking about it a lot, we get all caught up in it. So let's start dealing with it. Let's get to some solutions. We know the problem. What do you advise? How do you help people?

Kim D'Eramo

It's really important the way we're breathing in our body. And so I have a three-step process I've taught my patients and my clients, I use it all the time, that shifts your physiology and shifts your brain patterning from that heightened anxiety, urgency, buzz, down into a more conscious place of proactivity, responding instead of reacting.

And it really shifts our physiology back into clarity so we can perceive resources and access them. So, years and years back when I was very young, I actually did suffer from severe anxiety. And this was a time nobody knew, there was no word for it. I didn't know a single person who was struggling with what I was experiencing. And it wasn't until later studying psychology, studying medicine, I read in the book about anxiety and panic disorder.

And I remember reading the description thinking, oh my gosh, that is exactly what some like heady textbook person would write to describe what was happening in me. Although it barely scratched the surface of like the intensity of what it was actually like. And it was then I began exploring this and learning about it. And I had to figure out on my own how to modulate my nervous system there was nobody teaching me breath work. Like I literally had nobody I could talk to about this, but I did notice that what I was thinking about and focusing on and the way I breathed through my body and held my body had a dramatic impact on whether the anxiety would escalate into a full blown panic attack or whether it would sort of dissipate and dissolve. So we can do some of this now. This is so helpful whether it's your kids or yourself or just Wow, I'm overwhelmed, I'm so busy to do a little check-in.

Natalie 

Yeah. Okay. Let's do it.

Kim D'Eramo

Okay, so the tool is ABC. The first part is bringing your awareness to the body. When your awareness is outside of you or off in the future, I've gotta be late, I hope this doesn't happen, or anywhere other than here now, it will trigger inflammation in your body and it will trigger that heightening urgency in your nervous system. So the simplest thing is you can even just tap on your heart.

Breathe in and out, and then breathe as if it's this space. It's your heart that's bringing the air in, breathing in, and it's this space that's sinking back down as you exhale. So your attention, your focus, your energy goes here now into this area of your body. When you're tapping, you're shifting your electromagnetic nervous system, so it does have some physiologic effect. It does have effect on your neurology and brain function.

But it will also allow you to have a new focal point. So instead of focusing on, I'm going to be late or I can't believe she did this, you now begin to bring it here now. And that's really where your point of power is. So you can do it just resting the hand on the heart. And the second place is, the second step is breathing. So awareness is A. B is breathing.

When I was an ER doctor for many years, it was all about protocols. You have your go-to when things are intense. We were in major traumas. You have your ABC because you've got to anchor yourself around that structure rather than like, what should I do here? Or, oh no. And it's the same thing with anxiety. You have this anchor point system. So you practice, I'm gonna bring my awareness right here, right now into the body, focusing on the heart, breathing in and out. You can relax.

your shoulders down. That's another major key point that turns off that urgency of the sympathetic nervous system. The second stage is to shift your breathing. And so this part is so, so nurturing physiologically. It'll change your brain so you begin to see things you didn't see before. Like, oh, wait a minute. Why don't I just do that? When you're in that

Natalie Tysdal 

Yes.

Kim D'Eramo

heightened sympathetic nervous system of fight or flight, you literally cannot see solutions. Your brain is honing in on the laser focus of how do I climb the next tree to escape the tiger? You are not able to see the obvious solutions that could be right under your nose. So you shift your breathing and soon as you relax your shoulders back down, it will bring the breath deeper down into the lung fields, the lower lung fields.

But the point here is to let the belly expand out with the inhale and let the belly sink in with the exhale. You can take five minutes a day to retrain your body to breathe this way so that when you're in the moment of urgency or trigger or overwhelm, you actually have way more access to this physiology and this type of breathing. The third step is your conscious choice.

When we're in that sympathetic overwhelm, you snap at your kid, what do you mean? Why are you doing that? Or you make a rash decision because you just really don't see what's actually possible. When we have brought our attention back here now into the body, we're getting our power back, and we've shifted our physiology by shifting our breathing, we actually have access to a lot more conscious choice. And it's really just a matter of what do I truly want here?

Sometimes I'll just ask the question, if I'm really triggered and I can't see any possibility, I'll just say, what else is possible here? So that's sort of your C is like, what's my go-to? What's my conscious choice? And sometimes the conscious choice is, I choose to be love instead of this. I choose to be at peace and it's okay for me to let go.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, I mean that control thing for me and I think for a lot of people is I just want to control this. I want to fix it. I want to do it and to just step back and say, wait a minute, I don't need to have that control and to let yourself have that moment.

Kim D'Eramo

We're so used to thinking that we have to control things. It's just an assumption, but actually that's what really like keeps everything we're asking for blocked, blocked from coming in. And whether you're a parent and you're seeing anxiety in your kids, like I've seen that when people do shift this, they release control, they're willing to be more in flow. They'll tell me, oh my gosh, my kid's stopped having night terrors.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah.

Kim D'Eramo

Oh my gosh, my kid's not in anxiety and panic. They don't need medication and therapy anymore. Oh my gosh, my teenager isn't slamming the door and shutting me out. She came and talked to me about her boyfriend. And the reason is your physiology is such a potent signal to everyone around you that unconsciously, it doesn't necessarily mean they're aware of it. They'll feel you, especially kids are really energy sensitive, but everyone. And so the way they behave around you, whether, you know, your husband picks up the dishes and like automatically takes care of things, or you're like, why do I have to do everything? Has everything to do with the signaling happening within you. And you're in charge of that. So when you, you know, just bring that attention back here now, it may not be comfortable to feel what's here now, but you do it anyway. That's A, you shift your breathing, go into that belly breathing to shift from the sympathetic nervous system pattern. to the parasympathetic nervous system where you will reboot and rebalance your physiology, you'll access and see resources, and then begin to live from conscious choice instead of the reactive patterns.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah. You know, what it makes me think of is when I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm just calm having a nice conversation. But when I'm in work mode and when I'm in rush around mode or get the kids out the door mode or, you know, whatever that is, it's hard to take a step back and just be still and breathe.

Kim D'Eramo

I learned this when my, she's now 11, but she was like two, you know? And I realized like, if I've got this agenda, come on, come on, come on, we're going to be late. We got to get out the door. There was like an intensity that actually mucked everything up. She'd be upset. She wouldn't get her shoes on. So I remember one time, you know, she was kind of whining in the back and I just pulled the car over. I said, what do you need? And she's like, I dropped my book. Oh, okay. Here's your book. 10 out of 10. We got on our way. But if I had...

Come on, Gemma, you know, work with me here and resisted it. Like, it'd be like, it'd take 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds. So it's really a matter of will I bring my presence to this moment even when I'm scared or think, we've got to get there, we've got to get there when I'm feeling urgency, even when I'm overwhelmed and I think, no, I have to do it this way, right? Just soften your body. That's a major key here.

Kim D'Eramo

Breathe more fully and then begin to ask that question. Think more expansively. Wait a minute, what's actually possible here that I'm not seeing? Because when we're used to working and living in overwhelm, we just don't realize there's a different way to do it.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah. I mean, it's sad to think we get stuck in the habit of overwhelm.

Kim D'Eramo

And we think it's gonna work. We think like, well, I'll just work harder. And it's just never gonna happen because everything is responding to you.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. What else do you deal with your patients in depression, anxiety, and some of these tactics? And I want you to give me a few more. The tapping has become a thing I have found so helpful. I mean, people listening versus watching on YouTube maybe didn't see we were both tapping through that, but I know there are other tapping places. Can you give me some of those and continue?

Kim D'Eramo

Yes, and we actually have a really good free resource on this. I can give you the link for that as well because it's so, so valuable and I've seen so many kids get off medications, no longer need therapy, and really resolve major chronic health issues, abdominal pain, inflammatory disease, as well as mental, emotional, and behavioral issues. So basically our meridian channels are these electromagnetic currents throughout the body and they've been teased out anatomically in Western medicine, but these have been studied for like ever in Eastern medicine and much more well understood. So this component is constantly giving information to our nervous system, which has been shown to govern everything happening in our physiology and everything happening in our brain. And so I'm just going to start tapping on some of the points and you can tap with me.

The first point is in the inner eyebrow, right on that bony ridge in the start of the eyebrow, and you could tap one side, you could tap both sides, and you're just gonna breathe in and out. And that first thing we did with the instant elevation tool, the ABC tool, I use that with this. So all I'm gonna say here is just keep your attention in your body feeling what's happening here now, and just use that belly breathing. It's okay, soften your shoulders and let your body know it's okay to breathe in my body now. So that's gonna be our first point. Soften your shoulders, breathe through your belly. Our second point is the outer edge of the eyebrow, right on that bony ridge. And you just tap, you know, five or 10 times slowly with the pad of your finger. Same thing, breathing. We will add to this, but right now, we're just gonna open up the channels and breathe. The next one is underneath the eyes. So right on the little bone ridge on the top of the cheekbone, breathing and breathing out. This is letting your body know, oh, it's okay to relax. It's okay to soften my shoulders. It's okay to let the breath come in fully. The next one is right in the midline underneath the nose in the middle of the top lip and the nose. So you're just, same thing. Relax your body, breathe more fully, tap to open up these channels. And then right on the chin.

You're softening your shoulders, letting the breath feel what you feel because you may feel, oh, I don't feel, I feel bad. I feel heavy. I feel anxious. I feel angry. That's actually all good because that's the energy coming up. It's no longer suppressed under the rug. It's actually coming up, but it will go out. That's why you want to use a lot of breath. You drink a lot of water when you tap. The next one is underneath the collarbones. So it's like that soft fleshy spot right underneath the collarbones. It's also in the right and left. Sometimes I'll just use one hand. Sometimes you just tap the right side. You don't have to do both sides. And these are all different meridian channels. This one's a really powerful one called the K27 point. And it's a part of the kidney meridian. If you're really anxious and you're really overwhelmed, you just spend like a full minute right here and just say, body, it's okay to let go.

And I promise you, you will have a major shift in your physiology. The next point is underneath the arm. So right at the like nipple line, underneath the armpit, breathing in, breathing out. You could do both sides, but I usually just do one here. And then the last point is right on the top of the head. So you just tap right in that middle of the head and breathe in and breathe out. This is an awesome thing. First thing in the morning, just say, hey, buddy, good morning.

How are you doing? As you're going to bed at night, right, body, you can let go of the day. If you're in transitions, like you're driving the car, if you're feeling overwhelmed, so it's a good go-to tool, but it's also a good daily practice. After we do the points, you just breathe in and then exhale and breathe out. Sometimes I like to make a noise because that really moves a lot of energy. We can do a little bit of a round of using that more specifically for anxiety, if you'd like, and I'll show you how.

Natalie Tysdal

Oh, that just feels so, I feel so relaxed. I get really tense like back shoulder blades up through my neck and then it turns into this all on headache. And so finding ways to just, like you say, like soften your shoulders, like all of that. That feels so good. For those who are listening, you're like, we were doing it the whole time. So rewind a little bit and just follow the instructions and those show notes, I'll put in the show notes, that link for that free resource. I love that.

Kim D'Eramo

Yes. So that's at drkimd.com forward slash free EFT. This is called emotional freedom technique. There's a lot of research, a lot of data and medicine showing for PTSD, for anxiety disorder, panic disorder, pain syndromes, like virtually anything you can imagine that's been chronic. So do you want to do a round of this that we can use for anxiety to give them a guideline? Yes.

Natalie Tysdal 

Is it different from anxiety? Yeah, give us a quick round of anxiety.

Kim D'Eramo

Okay, so you're gonna start with the karate chop point, which is the outer edge of the hand And we do three set up phrases and you're just guiding your body to know what you're asking it to do So you're gonna say even though there's I'm in so much anxiety and you can repeat it out loud

Kim D'Eramo

Even though I choose to be at peace now.

Natalie Tysdal

I choose to be at peace now. So if you can pull over if you're driving or something, this is really good to stop and do. Okay, keep going.

There's a lot more you can go into and there's a lot on that page for free. But even just that one minute or 30 seconds can really, really make the difference between tight, overwhelmed, contracted, reactive, and all right, I can move through this.

Natalie Tysdal

And is this that whole exercise that you just did, I imagine good at what age for younger kids?

Kim D'Eramo

I've used it for four year olds, five year olds. My son is five and he had really severe allergic reaction. I took my daughter to horses and he's had that before where he'll just flare up. My eyes are itchy. So I drove him home and the whole time he's like, really struggling. I said, Gianni, let's do some tapping to nurture your body. And so this has been shown to rebalance the immune system, to decrease that inflammation among many, many other health benefits. And by the time we got home, like 10 minutes later, he was fine. He wasn't 100% yet, although over the next hour he resolved, but he was, oh, mom, that helped so much. Thank you so much. He went from crying and screaming and, oh, my eyes are so itchy, to like, oh, mom, thanks. That made such a difference. So at five, he could understand how to do this and understand why. Sometimes kids, you know, are...

Kim D'Eramo

really ready to just sit with this, but he did very, very well. With younger kids, younger than like three and four, you can just cross the hands right over the chest and do a butterfly. So you just kind of like pat, like little butterfly flapping wings left and right, left and right. This helps rebalance the hemispheres of the brain and shift the neurologic signals. So that can also be helpful.

Natalie Tysdal

That's, it's amazing to me. I mean, the emotional side of it, when we talk about anxiety and depression, but the health side of it, as you just mentioned, your immune system and as you were saying, with allergies and things like that, you find that in overall health as well.

Kim D'Eramo

Oh yeah, I had actually a kid since we're talking about kids. I use it mostly with adults, but I did have this kid with very, very severe abdominal pain and he'd been to see, you know, the gastroenterologist, the pediatric specialist. I was in Boston at the time, so they have lots of specialists. And over the course of a year, no one could figure anything out. They put him on multiple medications and he would just melt down in the backseat of the car when they'd go to like a baseball game or a party with his friends different social activities, screaming and writhing with this severe abdominal pain. And when I met with him once, and usually really honestly kids can have like one session and they will resolve. It's usually the patterns in the parents. So I always would offer like the mom a session or the parent because that would even move the energy at a deeper level of whatever the dynamics were emotionally. This kid, we immediately called out and found this actually started after he had vomited at his own baseball game and he was so embarrassed and so ashamed. And the dad trying to be encouraging, get back out there, buddy. Come on, don't let this get you down. You got this. So the kid really suppressed the shame and the embarrassment and what he was feeling. He felt he let his dad down. The kid was six at the time. So the emotional insight was really massive. It wasn't there before we started the tapping.

Natalie Tysdal

Why?

Kim D'Eramo

before it really comes up to the conscious. But I've seen universally that it will. And his symptoms completely resolved. He no longer needed any of the GI specialists. He no longer was on any medications. And that family was so, so happy. They looked retrospectively, oh wow, all of the social activities. When he wouldn't get out of the car, they were all baseball related that we went to see the Red Sox or we went to his.

baseball friends birthday party and it was all around that same incident and that same group. So it just retrospectively made a ton of sense, but on the front end it was a big medical conundrum.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, and who would have ever thought that's what was causing it? Like, you know, the kid and the parents, like, you know. Yeah.

Kim D'Eramo

We usually don't have words for, oh, hey, dad, it really made me feel bad when you said this to me. Usually we're not conscious of our emotions or our reactions, but they are still physiologic and they will physicalize. So I've had a lot of people with pain syndromes, fibromyalgia, migraines, all kinds of autoimmune diseases, and they'll say, no, this is not emotional. My labs show that this is physical.

Kim D'Eramo

But what we're not understanding is how much the emotions and the nervous system will drive those physiologic, physical responses and actually manifestation of disease.

Natalie Tysdal

Wow, so it's just amazing to me. Well, I know people might want more and more information. You gave us your website before, and where else can they find you and follow you?

Kim D'Eramo

I do a weekly broadcast called MindBodyTV and you can go to drkimd.com to subscribe to our email. So we invite you to that. If you join the MindBody community in Facebook, we have coaches in there to assist people through this work. My book is called The MindBody Toolkit. That's also at drkimd.com. And so yeah, you can just kind of begin to tune into what I'm offering.

are looking for how do I activate my power? How do I create it differently? How do I resolve these conundrums of challenges or illness or whatever may be going on? You're a lot more powerful than you may think, and you can really activate that when you begin to connect.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, so much gets trapped. And I love even just that small exercise you took me through. And I'm mildly familiar with tapping and interviewing people, but to make it a practice and to be aware. Thank you so much for coming on, for explaining this to us. And I just look forward to talking to you again.

Kim D'Eramo

Thank you, me too. Thank you so much for having me.

Natalie Tysdal

Take care.