153: Practice gratitude and self-compassion to cultivate happiness with Stella Grizont

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Natalie Tysdal 

Stella, what a joy to talk to you and to talk about happiness.

Stella Grizont 

I'm so happy to be here.

Natalie Tysdal 

Imagine you find people saying that all the time, like, I'm so happy to talk about this, but tell us how you got into this business of positive psychology and happiness.

Stella Grizont 

Yeah, well, it started because I wasn't so happy. I was quite miserable at work. In fact, I kept chasing happiness at work. I was, I thought I was in my dream job working in advertising and climbing the corporate ladder and doing all the right things and succeeding in all the right ways. But I was so depleted and finding myself so depressed that I would just come home and I write about this in the book and just...

Stella Grizont 

dig into a jar of Nutella straight up with a tablespoon and like numb my feelings and like talk to God and be like, there's gotta be more than this. And then one day I got an opportunity to go help entrepreneurs, women launching their businesses. And I thought this is my chance to do something meaningful, do something truly creative, help these women make their dreams come true. And it was so invigorating.

And I thought, this is my dream job. And I finally found my people. And then fast forward eight years later, I'm like back in the Nutella jar, like feeling really depressed, really burnt out, like not knowing what's going on. And then I thought, oh, I know what to do. I must launch my own business. And if I control all the decisions, then I'll be happy. Then I won't burn out. And so I actually went to go study applied positive psychology at UPenn during that, like,

Natalie Tysdal 

Thank you.

Stella Grizont 

in my transition because I thought I want to be equipped with the science of happiness. And here I go. And then one year into my business, again, it looked like everything was going well on the outside. We had we were on MSNBC and we had clients like Google and Johnson and Johnson. But I was curled up in a fetal position in my New York City studio, just having at it with the Nutella jar. And this time feeling just

so much like an imposter because I was like, how did I land here again? And at that point, I had to really take my own medicine. And I realized, you know, maybe it wasn't the corporate America that was making me miserable. Maybe it wasn't the startup world that was making me burnt out. Maybe I had something to do with it. Maybe it was me.

And I don't share that to blame myself or to blame anyone listening for their own kind of discontent, but rather miraculously somehow was able to see that as a moment of empowerment because I realized that all throughout my journey, I had more power than I thought. I had more control than I imagined. And so,

That was a turning point for me. And that's when I started to really integrate everything I learned in my master's program and also apply my own tools to kind of resuscitate myself and shift gears. And that was the genesis of the work happiness method.

Natalie Tysdal 

Wow, what a powerful story. And I want to dig into a couple of things there. Okay, so let's start with this. And then I want to get into how you started applying that and how you would advise people and how the book helps people in applying that. But my story, and I've told you just a little bit about it, was similar in that I was just not happy in the news business and so toxic and...

Stella Grizont 

Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal

It was at one point like, is this me? Is it the news? And it's hard to sometimes understand where is this yucky feeling? Why do I have this need for Nutella or whatever it is? It's hard sometimes to determine where that is and when to leave and when to stay and make the changes. So how can you help people in one podcast and figuring that out?

Yes, that's such a good question and I hear it all the time. My clients come to me and they're like, I don't know if it's me or if it's the job. And first of all, just even asking that question already is a beautiful start because it means that you're willing to look inside. It means you're willing to see things differently. So that, first of all, I think is a beautiful starting point. In the work happiness method, what we do,

Stella Grizont 

is we we first we start with you want to learn how to at least allow yourself to see the beauty in the present moment because even if you're miserable and in a toxic situation we have to get ourselves feeling more alive because we're going to take that energy

with us wherever we go. So even if I tell people, if you're willing to quit, you have the option to be brave. So why not flex and try to do something differently, experiment, make a bolder ask, try setting healthy boundaries, see if you can manage your mind and mood in a new way. And you know, if anything, you're going to grow regardless, and maybe you do realize you have to go or maybe you do realize.

Wow, I actually can stay in Flourisher, but how do you know? Well, first what I do with my clients is, well, we work on their mindset, but then what we do is we jump into clarifying their vision of what success really means to them, which is not a statement of achievements. It's not a statement of like, you know, I want to earn this amount, get this house, have this title.

get this book done, it's actually a statement of who you are when your heart is singing. It's a description of who you are when you're most alive. It's, you know, I'm getting chills as I'm talking to you because it's when we're seeing in technicolor, when we feel united with others and the universe and things are unfolding on our behalf and we really feel like we're on that path.

Who are we being and what does that look like and what are the conditions enabling that? So oftentimes clients will be like, I don't know what I want. And I'm actually say, yes, you do. You do know what you want because you at least have that vision that you already have that you already know. And so we do that exercise and it's called the vision generator and anyone listening can download it for free at visiongenerator .com. So we do that first and then what we do.

Stella Grizont 

is we scrub your vision for clues on what your values are. So your values are the guardrails for your decisions, for your choices, for your thinking, for your actions, so that you are steering yourself towards that vision every day.

And so what I have my clients do, and this is just, it only takes a few weeks. It's not like, it doesn't take a long time. But once we do all that clarity work, we start to actually make decisions in alignment with our values at work. And so if I say one of my values is being creative and I feel like, oh, this job doesn't let me be creative. Well, what do you...

What can you influence without even asking for permission to be more creative today? Is it you're going to change up how you do presentations? Is it you're going to have a try a new recipe for breakfast? Is it how you're going to dress? Is it about how you're going to tell a story differently? Is it about who you're going to collaborate in a new way? We have so much more power to be who we want to be. And so what you do every day.

is you take tiny actions, tiny, tiny steps to just move a little bit towards being more of that person, practicing more of those values. And then you pay attention. And then you notice. I say you notice what you notice. Notice what emerges, what are the thoughts, what are the feelings when you consciously start making decisions in alignment with those values.

And so some people will start to notice tremendous impact and some people will notice it's impossible. It's too, too hard. And so if you feel it's too much of a struggle, you know, there's other things we do. We set boundaries, we have difficult conversations, all of that I go through in my book. But ultimately, if you, if you go through all the inner skills and you find, listen, I authentically have done everything I can. I have looked inward.

Stella Grizont 

I have, I have done my work. And then, you know, then you're like, okay, this isn't, this isn't serving me and I'm not able to serve others in this position. Then it's time to go. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like animals are very in touch. So.

Yeah. Yeah. My dog liked everything you just said. Did you hear? Yeah. I usually put her away, but she was really excited about what you were saying. Okay. So, so much of that. It's so beautiful. And yet sometimes, and I'm sure people have asked you this too, sometimes you feel like I'm in the right place. This is what I've worked so hard to do, but I've got this boss that just holds me back or...

You know, this one person that keeps is a thorn in my side. How do you get around that? How can you be happy when other people are holding you back or making life difficult at work?

Stella Grizont

Yeah, there's definitely those people and it depends how difficult, right? So if there's a level of abuse and if there's like verbal abuse, emotional abuse, you know, if it's that that's like one extreme, right? That requires a different set of actions. But let's just say for our conversation that it's it's not not nothing like that. But maybe they're just.

Stella Grizont 

really difficult sabotaging you somehow. Again, I work with my clients to one of the things that we talk about is how do you have those difficult conversations? And the most difficult conversation you really have to have is first with yourself about what is this really about?

Stella Grizont 

What is this really about? What is this? What's happening for me in my body when I'm in a room with this person? Or what is this bringing up for me? What am I feeling? And what need that's foundational for my wellbeing, for my success, for my peace, for me being my best at work? is being violated in this relationship.

Because you want to know what the feeling is, what the need is, and then what you want to know is, well, what's the future that I would like to have? And ideally, it's a future that's one in which all parties can be uplifted and win, right? So what's that future? And so what I talk about in my book is before you even go in to have the conversation, you need to ready your approach.

And your approach is really about your energy. Because if you don't kind of dialogue with yourself and get clear on what's happening, it's very easy to go into that conversation with kind of a confrontational approach. And you know, because you interviewed people professionally, if they don't feel safe in a conversation,

Stella Grizont 

then they're shutting down right away.

Natalie Tysdal 

Right, right. Or they're combative or they're competitive, whatever that might be. And yeah, there's no resolution if everyone's just mad. Yeah or they're combat.

Stella Grizont 

Yeah. And so, so how do we get our nervous system into a place where we're feeling calm, open, even willing to see something that we didn't see before curious, even empathetic towards someone who might be making our lives miserable. Like it doesn't, empathy doesn't mean we agree. It just means that we're willing to care enough to understand.

Stella Grizont 

And so if we can get into that spot, which actually takes significant work, that level of openness, curiosity, empathy, if we can get into that spot, miraculous transformations can take place. I strongly believe that you can have, it's not, you sometimes when we're still in, I call it confrontational mode where we're seeing this person as someone we got to either like defend ourselves against or fight, you know, we kind of are like, it's either this or that, it's either A or B. But if we get ourselves into a true, like, conversational mode where we're open, where we're seeking to understand, where we're seeking to share, where we're curious, then it's not option A or B. Then it's like, it could be C, it could be D, it could be Z. We can come up with options that didn't even exist before. And I see that happen all the time with clients. I had a client who would schedule time to cry in the bathroom. I mean, it was so bad. And she's just like, I can't have this conversation with my boss. He's not going to get it. It's only going to get worse. He doesn't have the capacity to understand Stella. And so we really worked on it for many months to get her into a place where she wasn't feeling like a victim or she could go in there.

Stella Grizont 

honoring her integrity, championing herself. And in a matter of 15 minutes, everything changed. She shared that she wasn't able to be her best and be a leader on this team because she felt like there wasn't a lot of room for her voice when he was in the room. She was able to deliver it in a way that was compassionate and empathetic. And he said, you know what, you're absolutely right. I was feeling the same.

How about we get you on a new project? And she couldn't believe it. She didn't even realize that was an option. She didn't even realize there was another project. And so sometimes something will emerge that you can't foresee, but if you go in there with that openness and that non -defensiveness, you're, you know, at least you're creating a possibility.

Natalie Tysdal 

Wow.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. I love what you said a few minutes ago and that's what it sounds like happened with this woman that what do you have to lose? If you're just going to leave anyway, you may as well put it out there. Be honest. Listen, because you don't have anything to lose and you never know what might come of it. Yeah.

Stella Grizont 

Totally. Exactly. Exactly.

Stella Grizont

Exactly, you are very powerful when you are on the verge of quitting. You have so much power to flex and try new things.

Natalie Tysdal

You know, that could go two ways though. Like I know in the news business people are hot headed and I just, I remember it could go two ways. You could like have your piece and tell off the boss and say, I don't ever want to see you again. And here's everything I think of you and leave. And then feel like, Oh, I got that off my chest. Or you could take it the other way and say, let me just listen to you and say how I feel and get into that good space. And then if it doesn't go well, you could still leave.

But I've seen it go both ways. And usually that first way I mentioned comes back and bites you in the butt.

Stella Grizont 

Oh yeah, yeah, that doesn't serve.

Stella Grizont 

It's not really, you know, when we're speaking from that anger, which is, you know, that's our reactive, that's our defensiveness, that's our, you know, our fight or flight, that's our amygdala is running the show. But what we want to let run the show is more like our prefrontal cortex and our heart really, which is the part that can maintain a little bit more foresight and..

Stella Grizont 

openness and is more strategic. So that, but that doesn't work. We can't actually access our executive function when we are stressed and in fight or flight. And that's why I tell people if you're really angry, you have to wait. So you don't want to tell off the boss right away. Like take a walk around the block. You have to calm yourself down.

Stella Grizont

And sometimes it will take weeks, if not longer.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. Yeah. So I can't help but draw parallels to relationships, a marriage, any friendship, anything. When you're angry and the fight or flight is, I'm done, goodbye, versus to listen and use those skills and getting the nervous system into a good place. Draw those parallels in how we can learn from that in other ways.

Stella Grizont

Oh, I love that you drew that parallel because, well, first of all, I always tell whenever, I always say that my husband is my greatest teacher because my greatest teacher in difficult conversations and I'm doing a lot of practice with him. And it is really hard, but you know, when you have those...

Stella Grizont 

You know, there's lots of ugly fights, but then there are some of those transformational fights where you're like, we really listened to each other and we grew closer and we somehow we were able to really stay open and you feel stronger and better afterwards. That's, that's what's.

That's the good stuff. And it might not happen every time, but that's what we want to work towards. You know, like sometimes you have to do a few ugly fights and then learn from it. And then you do it well the next time, but it can be miraculous. It really can. Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. Let's talk more about, so the positive psychology, the finding happiness. So we've talked quite a bit about the negative side, getting rid of the negative, but give us other tips and other ways to find that happiness. I love what you first said of looking inward. Like you gotta be able to do that first, but give us more.

Stella Grizont

Yeah. Yes. So before we do that though, I don't want to say that we have to get rid of the negative because it actually starts with accepting the negative. It actually starts with us labeling wherever we are. So if we are feeling, let's say depressed or lonely or scared, we want to actually just give it a name and acknowledge that that's what our experience is.

Stella Grizont

because if we sweep it under the rug, skip over, wanna ignore it, and just move on to the good part, then we're actually bypassing an opportunity to grow or to learn from what we need to see. So we don't want to ignore the negative. What we want to do is accept it and expand our vision. So one of the cool things, one of the cool studies that I love and I keep referencing is,

when these researchers, Waldinger and a team in 2006, they took two groups of participants and they had them stare at a screen with eye tracking goggles. And before they stared at the screen, one group they induced into a positive mood by showing them pictures of puppies and babies. And then another group, they induced them into a negative mood by showing them sad images.

And what they found is that the people who were in a positive mood, their eyes tended to go around the periphery of an image and then scatter within. And then the people who were in a negative mood, their eyes tended to really hover around one particular point in the image. So what you have is a beautiful demonstration of when we are in a positive mood.

we can actually take in the big picture. We can actually see more.

Natalie Tysdal 

That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Stella Grizont 

Isn't it so cool? Like literally and figuratively, we can see more. And so what our goal is, is to be able to take in more, hold more truths, see more. So if we are down, that is one data point, like, you know, this is rough, I'm having a bad day, the world is hard. And, you know,

How can I see more? How can I see that it's a beautiful sunny day and I got a chance to do Pilates today and I'm talking to you and I'm healthy, there's food in the fridge. How do we amplify what is good? And so one of the things that I offer, and this is not a breakthrough by any means, but I offer an exercise where I say,

Well, I couple it. I do a complaint vacation where you abstain from complaining about the things that are wrong. So it's not ignoring what's wrong. It's abstaining from your energetic response to them like, ah, this sucks, right? Just like, oh, yes. Um, I got stuck in traffic today, not, ah, I'm stuck in traffic. Right. So we try to do that and then we couple it with gratitude.

Stella Grizont 

So it's seeing what's right. So it's acknowledging what's wrong and then seeing what's right.

Natalie Tysdal 

reversing that thought pattern.

Stella Grizont 

Yeah, and even expanding that, like, you know, what we're seeing. And so, I'm just curious, Natalie, what are you grateful for?

Natalie Tysdal 

I'm looking out my window in front of us and it is a beautiful day and this cool breeze is coming in my window and I have this like really awesome like drink right here. Like I am such a believer in changing if something is negative going, okay, what are three things right now? Some days, Stella, some days it's I am so grateful for the breath in my lungs. Like I am a big believer in that. Yeah.

Stella Grizont 

Yes, yes. That's how I like to wake up is just like I'll wake up and you know sometimes I don't I have a three year olds and a nine year olds and the three year olds sometimes like you know up at five so I don't have I don't I don't get a morning routine all the time when he's you know around I can do it like later but in the morning.

Stella Grizont

what I can do is just before I like put my feet on the ground is just be like, thank you. Thank you for my health. Thank you for this body. Thank you for the people that I love that we are healthy, that we are safe, that those are the first thoughts in my mind. Yeah, you know, and it's not always like, I'm not always, it's not like, it's not a,

Natalie Tysdal 

What a great way to start the day. Yeah. Yeah.

Stella Grizont 

overly emotional things. Sometimes it is just acknowledging. Sometimes I do feel it more deeply, but I like to have that as a practice. And also before I go to bed, I'll kind of go through a list of things that I'm grateful for.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. In the realm and the world of positive psychology, is that something that is at the forefront? Is that gratefulness and that, give me other things that people who study this do.

Stella Grizont 

Mm -hmm. Yeah, so I like to say that gratitude is a gateway emotion. It's the easiest one for us to step through and then it kind of gets us into this what Barbara Fredrickson, who's a researcher, says, a broaden and build kind of an upward spiral of positivity. So it's sometimes more difficult for us to step into like a sense of awe or a sense of love or

exuberance or joy, but gratitude, it's a little bit more accessible. And so I think that wherever you are, you can kind of start to acknowledge what you're grateful for. And sometimes it just takes longer for you to feel it in your heart. And so I tell people, just fake it, like fake, just go through your list, keep going, keep adding to it until you start to feel softening in your chest.

Natalie Tysdal

So you can fake it. You can fake the gratitude. You can't really fake the happiness.

Stella Grizont 

Yeah, you can, when I say fake it, I mean like...

Stella Grizont 

you might have to, you know, some people will be like, of course I'm grateful for my family, of course I'm grateful for my home, and they don't feel the gratitude. And so what I say is just keep going until you feel it. So when I would live in New York City, I'd get out of the subway feeling kind of grumpy. And then I had like three avenues and three blocks to walk. And I thought, okay, I am going to do an

a non -stop gratitude walk and every, like I'm just gonna name something I'm grateful for every step of the way. And I'd be like, I'm grateful for this coffee. I'm grateful that the weather is good. I'm grateful that, you know, I have these shoes on. I'm grateful that I have this, and I would keep going. And then in the beginning, I'd feel like, you know, whatever, I know, I didn't feel it. But by the time I'd press the button to enter the elevator,

I would be welling up with tears. I would be feeling just so full and seeing differently. So it takes some time to get into that zone, but we can all get there.

Natalie Tysdal 

What a great practice. It makes me think of, you know, sometimes it's really hard to get motivated, like to clean my house or whatever. But if I, I know that if I just go get the darn vacuum and I just start vacuuming, then I'm like, okay, I could, I can do the dishes. I can do some, you know, it's that action comes before motivation. Like it's reminds me of that, like just get started with it. And it starts to change that mood, that pattern.

Yes, yes, yes. And to your point, so I know you were asking for other tools. So another tool that's evidence -based and that we know is very important, especially now is around self -compassion. So when you're being hard on yourself, when your critic is just going off, how do you extend compassion to yourself?

Stella Grizont 

so that you're not beating yourself up, so that you're not punishing yourself, so you're not shaming yourself. And so it actually starts with acknowledging how you feel, right? So, you know, I feel disappointed that this didn't go the way that I wanted. And then it's talking to yourself like you would talk to your dearest friend with love. Well, of course, of course you know, you Stella, you feel that way, you know, you work so hard on X, Y, and Z, right? And then you want to remind yourself that you are human and that we all, we're all, we all make mistakes or we're not perfect. And that reminds us that of our interconnectedness. So like everyone makes mistakes or every, you know, sometimes things don't work out for people even when they do everything right, right? So that just is a gentle way of talking to yourself. And that actually helps you become more resilient in the face of setbacks. So that's another popular tool. I mean, I can go on, I can list 20. So tell me if you want me to keep going.

Natalie Tysdal 

I love that. I think that the ones you've given us are so powerful and important. I want to tell people though where they can find you since we could talk for hours and hours, but where can people find you and get more of everything you're doing?

Stella Grizont 

Oh, thank you. They can go to StellaGrizant .com and that's where they can learn about my coaching programs and my book and speaking and all of that.

Natalie Tysdal 

And the name of the book is, give it to me again, The Work Happiness Method.

Stella Grizont 

That's right, the work happiness method, master eight skills to career fulfillment.

Natalie Tysdal 

wonderful. Thank you so much and I follow you on social media by the way which I would encourage people to do so they can get some of your tips and follow everything that you're doing.

Stella Grizont

Thank you.

Stella Grizont 

Thank you so much for having me, Natalie. I really appreciate it.

Natalie Tysdal 

It's a pleasure and I'll continue to follow and we'll do a happiness check in again. We'll do this again. How about that?

Stella Grizont

I would love that. I would love that.

Natalie Tysdal 

Wonderful. Great to talk to you, Stella.

Stella Grizont

Thank you.