Stem Cells Are Just the Beginning: The Exosome Breakthrough

What if the real future of healing isn’t stem cells—but something even smaller?

In this episode of The Natalie Tysdal Podcast, Natalie talks with regenerative medicine expert Caleb Granger about a fast-growing area of medical science: stem cell exosomes.

For years, stem cells have been viewed as the key to regenerative medicine. But emerging research suggests that stem cells may actually work through tiny biological messengers called exosomes—microscopic particles that carry healing signals throughout the body.

These signals may help reduce inflammation, support tissue repair, and restore the body’s natural regenerative capacity as we age.

In this conversation, Natalie and Caleb break down the science in simple terms and explore what this could mean for the future of health, longevity, and recovery.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• What stem cells actually do inside the body

• What exosomes are and why scientists are studying them

• Why regenerative capacity declines as we age

• The role inflammation plays in aging and chronic health conditions

• How regenerative medicine is evolving beyond traditional stem cell therapies

• Why professional athletes are paying attention to these treatments

The Aging Equation: Regeneration vs. Degeneration

One of the most fascinating parts of this conversation is the idea that aging may be partly a math problem.

When we’re young, the body has hundreds of millions of highly potent stem cells actively repairing tissues and maintaining health. But as we age, both the number and effectiveness of those stem cells decline, while damage and degeneration continue to accumulate.

Regenerative medicine is focused on tipping that balance back—helping the body restore its natural healing capacity.

Why Inflammation Matters

Chronic inflammation plays a role in many health conditions, from joint pain to metabolic disease.

According to emerging research discussed in this episode, therapies designed to increase regenerative signals may help reduce systemic inflammation and support the body’s natural repair systems.

That’s one reason scientists are increasingly studying exosomes as a potential tool in regenerative medicine.

About Caleb Granger

Caleb Granger works in the field of regenerative medicine and focuses on therapies involving mesenchymal stem cell–derived exosomes, which are being researched for their potential role in healing and recovery.

His work centers on helping patients and healthcare providers better understand how regenerative therapies may support the body’s natural healing processes.

Listen to the full episode to learn how regenerative medicine may reshape the future of health and aging.

Subscribe to The Natalie Tysdal Podcast so you don’t miss future conversations about health, longevity, and the science changing how we live.

RESOURCES & LINKS

https://www.theapexmedical.com

Natalie Tysdal is a health journalist, not a licensed medical professional. The information shared in this episode is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Transcript

Natalie Tysdal (02:31)

Caleb, thank you so much for joining me today.

Caleb Granger (02:34)

Thanks for having me. Excited to talk with you.

Natalie Tysdal (02:36)

Well, this whole ⁓ world of regenerative stem cell, know we're going to talk about exosomes, but for some people this might be new. We have heard the buzzword for many of stem cells. But give us an indication, an idea, the background. What are stem cells? Why do we need to care?

Caleb Granger (02:58)

Sure. Stem cells are the healing cellular factories in all of our bodies. They are what carries out the healing. They carry the healing instructions and they are kind of the native healing factory in your body. When we're young, we have hundreds of millions of native stem cells in our bodies doing all this healing and regeneration. 150 to 200 million in our mid to late teens.

Of course, that's when our stem cells, native stem cells, and thus our regenerative capacity peaks, is when you're about 17 or 18. After that peak, the total number of stem cells that your body produces, carries, and the potency of each of your stem cells, all of those things start going down, right? Isn't this typical? It starts going down after 17 or 18 years old.

Natalie Tysdal (03:57)

Just like

everything else.

Caleb Granger (03:58)

Yeah, right.

And so this is kind of the aging process is as our regenerative capacity drops, the environmental, genetic and self-inflicted degeneration that our body faces increases, right? Those things don't go down. So we reach a point when our native regenerative capacity, including our stem cells, all no longer

overwhelm the degeneration that we face and then we start degenerating and that degeneration continues. It's tissue degeneration, it's organ degeneration, it's our skin, our hair, our eyesight, our hearing, right? Everything that we have is overwhelmed by degeneration over the years and that is purely a math problem is what we're finding. It's the fact that our regenerative capacity drops well.

degeneration continues. So the way stem cells work is these cells secrete these information carrying micro particles about one one thousandth the size of a cell that carry all the proteins growth factors and regenerative signals. They carry the healing blueprints that the stem cell produces. Those tiny particles are called exosomes.

So stem cell exosomes are the secretion of stem cells that carry the healing blueprints for our body.

Natalie Tysdal (05:36)

So why do they, I hear you on a large scale basis, but when we hear stem cells most often, it's when we have a problem. You know, I broke my shoulder a few years ago and that's when I think of like, more stem cells. Is that when it matters more when we actually break something or an organ is not working well? Or do we just need them for everyday life and feeling and looking good?

Caleb Granger (06:01)

So both of those things, we need them, the body needs them and utilizes them every day. Every day your body makes new stem cells, right? But as we age, it makes less and less stem cells and the stem cells that we make are less and less potent, less and less healing. What you're talking about and what kind of the public is familiar with is therapeutic, the therapeutic use of stem cells as a therapy. And so that's been around, you know, we've understood that this is how the body heals for about 30 years.

And so you think about in last 20, 30 years, there's been a bunch of research, ⁓ famous athletes and celebrities have gotten stem cells in their knees or their hips or they've used stem cell treatments. What we thought happened in the past 20, 25 years was that if you took either the body's own stem cells and concentrated them, or if you took stem cells from another donor and transplanted them,

The idea was that if we could take these healing factories and transplant more of them, basically give your body more regenerative capacity, that those stem cells would go into an area like a degenerated knee or hip or in an IV and just go systemically and that they would stay alive, take hold in your body, in the recipient's body, and eventually replicate and turn into new tissue. So if there was...

You had no cartilage in your knee, you put stem cells in your knee. And the idea was that if those stayed alive, they would stay alive in graft and essentially become new tissue, become new cartilage and add new cartilage. What we now know since the late 2010s, we now know that that's not how stem cells work. The way stem cells work is by secreting exosomes. These information carrying microparticles do all the healing work.

of the stem cell. So stem cells we now know are essentially expensive inflammatory exosome carriers. We know that ⁓ when you get stem cells, either your own stem cells or donated stem cells and use them therapeutically, that your body is super efficient in flushing and killing 99 % of the stem cells in the first 24 hours.

There's a massive inflammatory response. Anyone who's ever gotten stem cell injections, like in your knee, your physician will tell you, stay off that knee for a week or two because there's gonna be this massive inflammatory response. That happens all the time. Another therapeutic is called platelet-rich plasma. It's very popular. It's a much lower concentration version of regenerative medicine. They take your own blood draw, spin that down in a centrifuge, and essentially give you

Natalie Tysdal (08:25)

Wow.

Caleb Granger (08:53)

80,000 to 100,000 of your own stem cells back into a specific area. Now, what we know is when your regenerative capacity overwhelmed your degeneration, you had 150 to 200 million stem cells in your body. That was when you were 16, 17, 18. Today, for instance, me as a 50 year old, if I'm in peak health, I've got maybe 50 million native stem cells circulating in my body.

Every day so from 200 million when my regeneration was outstripping my degeneration as a teenager to now at 50 I've only got 50 million and those 50 million are each Significantly less potent their lower regenerative capacity per cells. I've got less cells and their lower potency so math wise This is why you don't regenerate when you're 50 years old, right?

Natalie Tysdal (09:50)

Yeah.

Caleb Granger (09:50)

because you

don't have the regenerative capacity. What I want your listeners to know is that scientifically now what we can do reproducibly is raise the body's regenerative capacity. The gross regenerative capacity of your body can be raised to the point that you can now overwhelm the degeneration and start regenerating again.

Natalie Tysdal (10:15)

Wow, so not getting any type of injection or anything, you're letting your own body do this?

Caleb Granger (10:21)

So we do that by flooding the body with regenerative signals. We get those signals from zero day old from the most potent mesenchymal stem cells, the most healing stem cells that the body ever produces, which are zero day old placental and umbilical mesenchymal stem cells after a healthy full term delivered pregnancy, planned C-section, the mother consents and add.

Natalie Tysdal (10:27)

Okay.

Okay.

Caleb Granger (10:49)

has a rigorous inclusion criteria to be able to donate her placental material. And once that's done, we use FDA audited and accredited and American Association of Tissue Bank audited and accredited procurement sources to get that tissue. We get the stem cells from that live tissue, zero day old live tissue. Now, when we get those stem cells, they've just spent the last nine months processing

Natalie Tysdal (11:12)

Wow.

Caleb Granger (11:18)

everything that's needed to create an entire perfect human being from two cells. Those mesocymosteam cells have processed everything to make perfect hair, perfect skin, perfect eyes, perfect brain, perfect muscle, perfect tendon. They've just done that for nine months. We get those max generative potential cells. Take the healing signals from those cells.

in massive amounts and then deliver those totally inflammation free. They can't carry genetic information, viral or bacterial load. So they're incredibly safe. There's no contraindications. can't, it can't cause a reaction. You can't, there's no contraindication for any pharmacological, any previous condition. ⁓ They're just super, super safe. And

they flood your body with healing directions. And so we can give in one treatment 500 million mesenchymal stem cells worth of healing in one treatment. So you talk about, it's remarkable.

Natalie Tysdal (12:30)

That is fascinating.

how are they injected? How are you consuming this?

Caleb Granger (12:37)

Mm-hmm.

Sure. So there's a variety of ways and it's really based on condition and kind of the modality that best suits the patient. So we can do it via IV push. So of course that takes a needle stick and then we're doing it takes about five minutes to put 500 million mesocymal stem cells worth of healing directly into your bloodstream. We have a sublingual spray from home. So it's a spray that goes under your tongue, five sprays on your tongue morning and night.

We have an intranasal spray. Studies have shown if you take exosomes via intranasal spray, in one hour, 90 % of those exosomes are in your midbrain and hippocampus, taking away inflammation, regenerating the vasculature of the brain, regenerating brain tissue. So you think about all the degenerative and inflammatory brain-based or skull-based conditions. There's a bunch of them, including all the dementias, vascular dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's.

traumatic brain injury. It's incredible. of our most gratifying patients are pediatric autism has an incredible effect on that. Even long time depression. Again, some of the most gratifying patients are those who have been on, you know, 15 to 20 years of full time SSRIs. To get off of SSRIs and essentially regenerate healthy brain tissue.

and all the healthy neural connections, we can do that with stem cell exosomes. then of course, so it's all relative, right? We've treated close to 14,000 patients in the last three years, about 10,000 last year. We're on track to treat about 20,000 this year. That's right. So yeah, we're the manufacturer. It's only available in the US right now.

Natalie Tysdal (14:12)

So how common is this? ⁓ Are a lot of people doing it?

through different offices around the country, the world.

Caleb Granger (14:35)

We're the manufacturer, we're based in Austin, Texas, and so we work closely with providers in really any Texas metro area, but we work all over the nation with providers and provide placental and umbilical stem cell exosomes to providers everywhere. And. ⁓

Natalie Tysdal (14:52)

I have so many questions, it's so fascinating.

How are people paying for it? How expensive is it? And is it something that insurance is even touching yet or is it still new enough that it's not?

Caleb Granger (15:04)

Yeah, unfortunately, we're a few years away from private insurance reimbursing for it. That's something that we're working towards and we're working on a state by state ⁓ level ⁓ to do what's needed in order for that to happen. But right now it is cash pay only. is HSA ⁓ qualified. So health savings account. You can use those. ⁓ And typically what we do is and we found the best results not just being episodic.

in nature, so not just doing one treatment, right? One IV. We get the best results when we can again, raise your regenerative baseline, raise the body's regenerative capacity consistently. And so we do that with usually IVs once every two weeks or once a month or once every two months and then daily, depending on the condition, severity and time of the condition and daily sublingual. So we do a bolus.

you know, pump up your regenerative capacity and then keep it high with daily sublingual spray. And that has an incredible systemic result. We know from doing, for instance, one week of our typical protocols, meaning one IV and six days of sublingual, that that results in a 500 to 1000 % on average, 500 to 1000 % reduction in total body inflammation.

So we knew that was happening with our clients. We knew they were seeing this massive inflammation reduction. We didn't know that it was a 500 % reduction. That people's sed rate, their ESR, was going from 150 to 15. Right? Just a massive, massive drop. What that means is the felt effect of that, rather, is not just some orthopedic symptom. You've got a hurt knee, you've got a hurt elbow.

It's not just that that goes away. We saw clients and see clients where they're primarily wanting to treat orthopedic symptomology, but their eczema goes away or their psoriasis goes away that they've been treating with steroid cream for two and a half years. That totally resolves their gums grow back, right? Their eyesight improves, their hearing improves, their tinnitus goes away is totally resolved.

These are all the things that your low to mid level total body inflammation that you've had for 10 years, 15 years, when you can miraculously just take that away. What ends up happening is even if we weren't flooding your body with healing signals, your body's own healing capacity would now be able to go heal these individual areas if you didn't have this total body inflammation.

Natalie Tysdal (18:02)

Yeah.

Caleb Granger (18:02)

And so just taking the inflammation away has a profound result. And then we also add on hundreds of millions of mesocymal stem cells worth of healing signals into that mix.

Natalie Tysdal (18:15)

So let me ask you, is there a

downside? Is there anything that people who are not eligible for this, it's just not for them or are there side effects?

Caleb Granger (18:25)

None of those things.

Natalie Tysdal (18:28)

So across the board, can help anyone.

Caleb Granger (18:31)

No contraindications. fact, there's so one of the things that's so profound about this, people haven't heard of stem cell exosomes, but they need to be assured that what stem cell exosomes are, are just how stem cells work. We now know in the last six or seven years, this is how stem cells work. So there's 25 years of stem cell data in the peer reviewed published literature, medical literature.

There's 7,500 or more randomized controlled trials using stem cells as a therapeutic in humans. A massive amount of data. What we now know is all of that stem cell data is stem cell exosome data because the way the stem cells healed was through exosomes. We now know that. It's like if for the last 30 years, we knew that the sun ⁓ helped plants grow. But in the last six years, we now understand

the specific mechanism by which the sun helped plants grow was photosynthesis. And so there wasn't, that's it. There wasn't exosomes studies seven years and longer. From 1965 to 2019, there's no studies on exosomes. From 2020 to today, there's close to 43,000 studies on stem cell exosomes as a healing therapy. There's never been a therapy, a drug,

Natalie Tysdal (19:35)

⁓ We just understand it. Yeah.

Caleb Granger (19:59)

any sort of medical intervention that has that level of clinical and preclinical data collection associated with it in a five year time period, nothing has even come close. And the reason why we have this is because we now know this is how stem cells work. And so it's building on all the data that we already have, all the safety data that we already have related to stem cells and adding to that.

Natalie Tysdal (20:02)

Yeah.

So is the race on now? you manufacturing? Are other people manufacturing? It's like, wow, this is the newest great thing. We all have to capture this. And how difficult is it to get the donations? I that's a whole nother level of collecting, right? I I have three kids. I wish I would have collected it.

Caleb Granger (20:41)

So, yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, it isn't that funny. You know, I've got one son and I feel the same way. Of course, I didn't do that. What we now know is that's so valuable. That material is absolutely so valuable.

Natalie Tysdal (20:58)

⁓ How

long does it last? once you collect it, does it need to be used right away or is it preserved?

Caleb Granger (21:07)

It is preserved. we have it's fresh frozen. So exosomes, the umbilical derived have a two year shelf life. The placental derived, which are the most potent, have a three year shelf life. So there's a method for preserving them ⁓ that is not a controversial method. It's used all over. And so we're able to do that really consistently.

⁓ We also can get a fair amount of volume again. ⁓

Natalie Tysdal (21:42)

Wow. So

each collection is helping how many people?

Caleb Granger (21:47)

Yeah, we can we can get, you know, hundreds of vials of exosomes out of one placental specimen. So there isn't a right now a supply issue, and I don't anticipate there will be a supply issue. It kind of speaks to what there isn't is some special formula that only we have. And so it kind of speaks to why maybe

Natalie Tysdal (21:53)

Mm.

Wow.

Caleb Granger (22:16)

Pfizer or some or Merck right or one of these other pharmaceuticals That whole business model is to make something in a lab That has intellectual property around it then once that gets out no one else can mimic that America for seven years and so that creates an incredible financial incentive to make something unique to find new conditions that your unique thing Can treat in a way that nothing else can right?

some unique symptom that this can treat. That's the whole pharmacological model. This is not that. Exosomes are abundantly available in nature. It would be like if science just figured out that water helped with hydration, right? Well, Merck can't do anything with water. Yeah, they can try. They can do water. You you could do exosomes plus your special formula.

Natalie Tysdal (22:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

They're not creating new water. Well, I'm going to try, but...

Caleb Granger (23:15)

Or you could do a special delivery, a proprietary delivery of exosomes. Those are two areas. And in fact, pharma companies are using exosomes as a delivery mechanism because the body accepts them so fully. They're loading exosomes with their specific pharmacological intervention and their DNA strain. You know, that is definitely an area of investment that kind of big pharma is working on. That's very different.

Natalie Tysdal (23:29)

Yeah.

Caleb Granger (23:45)

than mesenchymal stem cell exosomes used therapeutically. You know, there is no downside. You can't overdose on exosomes. There's no contraindications. The way they are built, they don't carry the things that can cause inflammatory responses. They don't pass on genetic information from a donor to a recipient like cells do.

Natalie Tysdal (24:07)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caleb Granger (24:13)

All the negatives that were associated with stem cells and there were negatives are alleviated with exosomes and they're more concentrated. The positives are amplified. So it's like stem cells on steroids or stem cell concentrate all the good, none of the negative and the economics are such that you can get exosome treatments for a third of the cost of what you can get a much lower concentration, higher inflammation.

Natalie Tysdal (24:24)

Yeah.

on.

Caleb Granger (24:43)

stem cell treatment today. So, you know, it's all the good things, right?

Natalie Tysdal (24:45)

Hmm.

It's really, it sounds

unbelievable because it's like, wow, why did I not know this before? Which is why I wanted to have you on and talk about it. Someone listening is thinking, why do I need this? actually kind of, I think of myself as pretty healthy. Why do I need this? And if I am interested, where do I go get it?

Caleb Granger (25:08)

So what I would recommend, you'll have all of our information, our website and socials. I really advise people to reach out to us and we can connect you with either preferred providers or with us directly and get you treatment here in the US. Why you should use it now, right? If you're an adult, is there's very easy to track markers that are related to your biological age.

and the age and functionality of your organs. Things like A1C, AST, ALT, your total body inflammation, all of those things are almost directly tied to aging and mortality. What we see consistently is all of those age-related organ health, systems health-related markers drop by double digits.

with consistent exosome use. And so you could be in great shape at 35, 45, 65, and still be in better shape, right? Still get, you know, an example is, for instance, for me, two years ago, I started doing IVs every two months, exosome IVs every two months. My HSCRP,

which is the most discriminating measure of total body inflammation, blood panel ⁓ test shows my total body inflammation was 2.3 two years ago. And I started doing once every two months IVs. After that first year, it went from 2.3, which is kind of low inflamed, less than two is the healthy marker. And so my 2.3 at 48 years old, I was fine, it's a little bit inflamed, 0.3 over two.

That went from 2.3 to 1.2. Last year, I started doing once a month IVs, daily sublingual throughout the year. By the end of last year, December of last year, it went from 1.2 to 0.1 at 50 years old. So from 48 to 50, my total body inflammation went from 2.3 to 0.1. 0.1 is the lowest registrable inflammation.

Natalie Tysdal (27:31)

Wow.

Yeah.

Caleb Granger (27:31)

marker for CRP. It's like having

the information of a seven-year-old, right?

Natalie Tysdal (27:36)

Do you feel that difference?

Caleb Granger (27:39)

Absolutely. So as an athlete, right, was a college athlete and stay active today, having no joint or tendon pain, having, you know, no matter what I do, right, that's the main thing that I feel, right? When you're working out and my elbows would hurt or my ankles would hurt or my knees would hurt, always had knee pain, to have that at 50 be totally gone, right? Now I can still hurt myself.

I can still overdo it. What will happen if I overdo it is instead of in the past when I was 45 not on exosomes, if I hurt myself now suddenly this is an injury added to the catalog of injuries that I then have to manage. Right. And years go by and my regenerative capacity can't outstrip the degeneration that I've given my knee for instance. Well today at 50 if I hurt myself it heals.

It heals and so, you know, it's, it's a, it's an

Natalie Tysdal (28:43)

I would think you're

really popular with athletes.

Caleb Granger (28:46)

I'll tell you, we've now in the last probably six months, we're working with about 35 NFL and NBA guys and some of the biggest names in the UFC. All the folks, of course, who you would expect ⁓ if you could have something that would increase your regeneration, keep you totally healthy, you know, no matter what you're ⁓ giving your body in terms of degeneration. These are the folks who would do that. And indeed, they are.

Natalie Tysdal (29:15)

Yeah,

yeah.

Caleb Granger (29:17)

But it's not

just them. These are the ones whose bodies are directly related to their paycheck. We all, to some degree, our energy is related to our paycheck, our livelihood. Our bodies are still, even if we're not athletes, you still want to get the absolute most out of your physical body. And that's what this allows you to do.

Natalie Tysdal (29:22)

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Is it affordable for the average person? you get on a smaller dose or more less frequent dose to make it something that average person could do?

Caleb Granger (29:48)

You know, typically our protocols will do 60 and 90 day protocols depending on your condition and how you come to us. Those 60 and 90 day protocols, which we then will continue, you know, kind of throughout the year. We want to raise that regenerative capacity as quickly and as much as possible. Those will be anywhere from a high four figures to a low five figures. And that includes again, multiple IVs, daily sublingual. It's literally

billions, billions, three, four, five, six billion mesenchymal stem cells worth of healing. And so you compare that to other regenerative modalities. For instance, you could go overseas. You could go to Panama or Colombia. Those are the only places that you could conceivably get hundreds of millions of stem cells, and those will start typically at about 20 to $25,000 for 100 to 200 million stem cells. We can do a 500 million

zero day old live tissue derived placental stem cell IV for anywhere from 3,500 to 6,500 depending on the market and the provider. So a massive difference, five times more healing for a tenth of the cost.

Natalie Tysdal (31:08)

Yeah,

well, I'm excited to see how you grow, how much more common this gets ⁓ in more offices, something that people just generally understand. That's why I love doing what I do in health news is when things like this come out, you're like, wow, that's really amazing. Yeah.

Caleb Granger (31:25)

Yes.

You know, I'll tell you, there's 200 to 300 new peer reviewed published studies being published every week on stem cell exosomes as a healing therapy for every degenerative and inflammatory condition. So the fact that your primary care doctor or maybe your specialist that you're seeing has never heard of stem cell exosomes. This is only in the last

call it five years that this new knowledge about how stem cells work ⁓ is is being studied and made available. But it's it is if anything the reality is even better than what I'm able to communicate right now. It's just it's extraordinary.

Natalie Tysdal (32:15)

Well, it's something I think that we have to continually ask. I was just doing another podcast on this topic. We have to continually ask our health care providers. And they have to stay on top of these things. And it's tough when they have a full-time practice. get it. But if we're not the ones asking the questions, then we won't know. Yeah.

Caleb Granger (32:33)

Yes, you're exactly

right. If anyone is considering or has a provider telling them to get stem cells, what I suggest is ask that provider. What is the proposal of what those stem cells do? Tell me what those stem cells are doing. How does that work? Right. And if they say anything other than, well, we put those stem cells in your body flushes and kills the vast majority of them in 24 hours.

But in that 24 hour time period, they secrete healing signals. So we're really just counting on how many healing signals they can secrete in that 24 hour time that they're alive. If there's any answer outside of that, they are seven to 10 years behind what we now know in the science. That's fine. It's nothing. It's absolutely not malicious at all. They simply just don't have the information.

Natalie Tysdal (33:27)

Yeah.

Caleb Granger (33:30)

and are using a mental map of what stem cells do that we now know is completely untrue.

Natalie Tysdal (33:36)

Yeah. Well, Caleb, I appreciate your time and explaining. I learned a lot today and we will be sure to put the information in the show notes. Anyone who's interested wants to learn a little bit more and we'll put that link there for anyone interested. Thank you so much for taking the time and best of luck.

Caleb Granger (33:54)

Gosh, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.