Uncomplicating Wellness: How to Cut Through Health Overwhelm with Jenn Trepeck

Natalie Tysdal (01:24)

Jen, congratulations on your new book. And I'm really excited because this is like right up my alley in just clarifying things and not making health so difficult for people.

Jenn Trepeck (01:36)

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited because people want this, and yet it feels overwhelming to try to figure it out.

Natalie Tysdal (01:45)

Yeah, they want it so badly that they try everything, which is part of, I know what you've done in this book is you can't try everything and not everything works for everyone. So tell me what you found in researching this and why you have spent so much time on this book.

Jenn Trepeck (01:48)

Yes.

Yeah, so this book, I joke that it was a lifetime and six months in the making. Because I mean, last time I was here, we talked more about my story. But I joke that I was like the skinny one in a family of dieters. And then I started to gain weight. So I tried everything under the sun and gained and lost and lived on that roller coaster. And I mean,

I've done it all, my family's done it all, or we know somebody who's done every single thing out there. And I've been health coaching since, it was like late 2007. I've had my podcast, Salad with a Side of Fries, since August of 2019. And what has changed over the years is that the questions people ask are more and more in the weeds.

Natalie Tysdal (02:59)

⁓ yes, absolutely. We are really in the weeds about very specific things.

Jenn Trepeck (03:04)

Yes, and everyone's worried, you know, well, cantaloupe or honeydew. And I'm like, pretty sure if you're choosing between cantaloupe and honeydew, we're in a great place. Just eat what you like. You know, tell me about your sleep. Tell me about your stress, right? Like we're so hyper focused on a handful of things and it often comes at the expense of others. And so what all of this is to say,

Natalie Tysdal (03:15)

you

Jenn Trepeck (03:35)

And what's come through in the effort to uncomplicate is really cutting through the noise, teaching people how to evaluate everything that's coming at them, and succinctly and ⁓ approachably talk about the biology and the science so that we have an understanding of what's fundamentally

human so that we can even recognize where even in our daily habits right now, the stuff that we're doing that is taking up a lot of energy that probably isn't giving us the bang for the buck of energy.

Natalie Tysdal (04:14)

Well, so when you say we're in the weeds, in some ways we know more. So some of the weeds are good. Like we understand supplements better. We know the science behind some things that maybe when you started health coaching or even me as a health journalist 20 years ago, we didn't know so much. it's like knowing has made us better and it has complicated it so much that maybe we're just spending too much time on some of those things.

Jenn Trepeck (04:18)

Yes.

Yes.

Well, it's interesting because we know buzzwords. We don't know nuance of how to implement those strategies. So.

Natalie Tysdal (04:55)

Give me an example.

Jenn Trepeck (04:58)

So we were just talking before we clicked Record about ⁓ an ice bath or cold plunge. Certainly didn't. mean, a handful did. And we thought they were maybe a little off their rocker, right? But increasingly, there's more and more research that, especially for women, the time of day and the temperature of the water are very important to consider. And instead of finding that out, we read the headline.

Natalie Tysdal (05:02)

Yes, we didn't do that 20 years ago. Well, some people did.

Jenn Trepeck (05:27)

And then we go to these cold plunges that are potentially doing more damage than help. Or we're very concerned. Like, I'm all for this protein craze to some degree. Because certainly most people are under eating protein. The other side of that is now we end up with a whole host of

new ingredients and products that we have to understand how to read the labels because just because something is more protein doesn't necessarily mean it's a more healthful choice than something else. And so we still have to, even though we know more, it's almost like the more we know, the more discerning we have to be in order to not be overwhelmed. And it's that discernment that's

Natalie Tysdal (06:05)

Yeah, yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (06:22)

just really difficult because most people aren't going to sit here and do the research on which kind of calcium is the one that's actually bioavailable and absorbed and going to support the health outcomes I'm looking for.

Natalie Tysdal (06:35)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I find that it can be so overwhelming that many people give up and they think, I mean, we used to joke about this as a health reporter on the news. We'd say coffee's good for you. And then the next study coffee's bad for you. Red wine's good for you. no, don't have any red wine. Coconut oil, best new thing. ⁓ wait, no, coconut oil. Like we would go back and forth even in the news business on the studies and the stories that we did. And at some point,

Jenn Trepeck (07:01)

Exactly. Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (07:05)

the listener or the consumer just says, ⁓ just screw it. Just whatever. I'm just going to go eat fast food, you know, because they just, I'm just hungry. Just something, you know, and they just give up.

Jenn Trepeck (07:12)

Yeah. Right.

Exactly, because it becomes so whiplash almost. We don't know which way is up. So there's a chapter in the book called My Top Five Tips for Digesting Nutrition News. And I walk through a handful of things to do, even to say, does this study apply to me?

Natalie Tysdal (07:22)

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Jenn Trepeck (07:42)

Because just because it's newsworthy and a headline in a new study doesn't necessarily mean that we need to adopt whatever conclusion it came to. So one of those things is even as far as like, does this apply to me? It's a piece of who was studied? Do any of the people in the study reflect my age, my demographic, my phase of life?

Natalie Tysdal (07:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (08:12)

Am I reflected in this study?

Natalie Tysdal (08:14)

Yeah, yeah. And was it scientifically based? I don't know if that's one of your tips, but for me, is it just someone's opinion or is there actual research?

Jenn Trepeck (08:15)

And then the right, right.

Right, and I think there's a lot of value in lived experience. We just want to come back to our own lived experience more than trusting someone else's and thinking that their lived experience means something about ours or overrides our own. So in the beginning of the book, I talk about how really you are the magic bullet that you are looking for everywhere else.

Because you know your body. You are, in fact, even more of the expert in your body than the physician. So if we're in a doctor's office or if we're having a conversation with someone and they're recommending something that you know doesn't agree with you,

You have permission to not do it and to say, that's really interesting. What I know for me is, fill in the blank. So I don't think I'm going to play with that. But we ignore what we know about ourselves and take everything else as the be all end all. And I think that's part of what got us to this place of everybody sitting here trying to go.

Natalie Tysdal (09:26)

Yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (09:41)

This is so overwhelming. It's too much. And to your point, throwing their hands in the air and saying, well, I must be the problem. Forget it.

Natalie Tysdal (09:48)

Yeah, yeah. Well, so then let's get to some solutions. I we know there's problem and there's a lot of information and there are a lot of podcasts. I mean, I'm not dissing that at all because I love it and I get information from that. But I often say in the news business too, like we stopped following just companies and corporations and news channels and we start following people that we trust because we know they give good information.

Jenn Trepeck (09:53)

Yeah, right.

Yes.

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (10:17)

⁓ And we know that we can trust that they have done the research or they have vetted it in some way. So what advice do you have for people trusting you? Because I've listened to you and I've interviewed you before. What advice do you have for plowing through some of this information and just finding a rhythm that works individually?

Jenn Trepeck (10:23)

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, so one of the pieces, well, in addition to sort of everything that we share about how to evaluate all of that information, then at some point, we got to put the blinders on. Because consistency in whatever we're doing is what really moves the needle and what gets us moving forward versus that shiny object syndrome of different week, different plan. So it's.

Natalie Tysdal (10:52)

Mm.

Jenn Trepeck (11:09)

interesting to see what happens when we start to do a handful of things very consistently. So part two of the book is what I call the bio stack. So we want to bio stack instead of bio hack. And that bio stack is fuel, movement, hydration, which is more than just water, ⁓ stress management, sleep, and connection.

And we need to tackle these six categories. It doesn't mean complete upheaval of your life. It means let's get these things dialed in. Let's get some things happening every single day in these categories. And then we can add some of other stuff on top. So this book is maybe disappointing to some. It's not a how-to. It is not a plan.

Because nobody needs another plan. What it does, though, is in each of those chapters, it offers the fundamentally human approach and some ideas to play with for how to focus on that piece and level up where you're ready or dial it in so that we can start to make some progress in those areas. And so.

The question everybody asks is like, which one should I start with? And to which I say, yeah, you're like. And I tell everybody, this is the most disappointing answer. But it's, you know, it's the one that when I said the word, you went, Right, like that you had that visceral reaction of like, I'm not really doing that one.

Natalie Tysdal (12:45)

Come on, tell me.

Jenn Trepeck (13:06)

That's the one that we might want to start with.

Natalie Tysdal (13:08)

So you're saying it's the one you like the least. It's the...

Jenn Trepeck (13:11)

Probably.

It's the one that you're ignoring at the moment.

Natalie Tysdal (13:15)

So tackle the hard thing first.

Jenn Trepeck (13:19)

and tackle it in a way that's so seemingly simple. Because I think we also have this idea that to change our health requires this massive thing and eight million things that really we create a plan for ourselves that's based on this textbook perfect day that never actually exists. And so maybe once a year we make that happen.

Natalie Tysdal (13:32)

you

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think so many of us can relate to that. It's, I used to say like, I wanted to make this perfect baby book for my daughter and all these, all these pictures are just pile up and I would just look at them because I wanted it to be perfect. And now it's still in a box. And it's the same thing with our health where it's like, just go to the gym. Like you don't even have to do a lot at the gym and, but just go and say, I'm just going to walk around the track a few times and you'll find that the momentum picks up when you actually just

Jenn Trepeck (13:59)

and then life.

Right.

Natalie Tysdal (14:18)

break that cycle. Just, just go, just actually just get there. Even if you don't do anything, just get there.

Jenn Trepeck (14:20)

Exactly.

Or maybe getting there is the roadblock. Maybe what it ends up looking like is 10 minutes circling your couch while you're on the phone. That counts. And so again, we have this idea of, it doesn't count unless it's long enough or sweaty enough or hard enough or intense enough or all of these things. And so we end up in this very much all or nothing black and white

Natalie Tysdal (14:31)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (14:54)

thinking,

approach. So what I recommend is that we figure out a couple things that can happen all the time on our most hectic, chaotic, most stressful day. That's actually our baseline. Then on the days that aren't so wild, maybe we level it up. Maybe those are the days where we get to the gym instead of walking around the kitchen.

Maybe those are the days where we make a little extra food to have something for tomorrow instead of saying, all right, I'm ordering an omelet from the diner because that's what I can do today. It comes down to things that we think are so small that they don't really count. And the truth is, it's those seemingly small things that truly move the needle that add up to our health outcomes.

And if we start to pay attention to those, we see the health and longevity that we're looking for. Because a cold plunge can be great. And we can't cold plunge our way out of not sleeping.

Natalie Tysdal (16:10)

Yes, yeah. And if you're just focusing on just that thing, you're missing the bigger picture of all of these things have to add up without being complicated. Yeah. Well, ⁓ what else do you talk about kind of the vital signs? And I love this part of the book that you told me about. Tell me why those matter and what they are.

Jenn Trepeck (16:21)

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I count those in this book. It's poop, sex, and supplements. And they are areas where we can start to pay attention and realize that it's our body communicating with us. so especially, nobody likes to talk about poop. So we talk a lot about it. Yes. And how often has your doctor asked you about it? I'm willing to bet not much.

Natalie Tysdal (16:55)

But yet it's so important that we're in touch with this.

Yeah, my doctor recently too, was like,

have you looked at your poop? I'm like, no. She's, okay, well then we don't really know what's going on. Like, ooh, who does that regularly? But we should be.

Jenn Trepeck (17:14)

Right. Right. And even if you're not looking at it, how often are you going? How does it feel when you go? Is it easy? Or are you sort of white knuckling to get it out? Those are signs of what's happening in the body. That's part of the body communicating with us that we ignore. And really, it's the pieces that help us understand and have a dialogue.

Natalie Tysdal (17:20)

Right?

Jenn Trepeck (17:45)

So the other thing that I think is so interesting too in the chapter about sex, mean, you know,

We often just accept that some of these things come with age.

And really, they're indications of imbalance. So if we better understand what's happening, or we're even in tune with what's happening, then we can start to play with and experiment with some approaches that allow us to have happier, more fulfilling lives, and all of these things. So we talk about those pieces in a way to highlight stuff that we're ignoring.

that are really important.

Natalie Tysdal (18:31)

Yeah, yeah. So those two and then you said supplements.

Jenn Trepeck (18:35)

And then

supplements. So supplements, it's an interesting one. So I do a lot in my practice with supplementation. And at the same time, I also tell everybody, just like you can't cold plunge your way out of not sleeping or whatever, you can't supplement your way out of lifestyle choices. There is not a miracle supplement that you're going to take that will undo or overshadow all of the other things.

Right, by definition, the word supplement means to add to. So we want to put them in their place. And at the same time, our food supply is not what it once was. So an apple that we eat today, or broccoli, or whatever it is, does not have the same nutrients or nutrient density as the apples and broccoli that even our grandparents ate just 30, 50 years ago.

Natalie Tysdal (19:09)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Trepeck (19:35)

So there's a role for supplementation. think one of the things when it comes to supplementation is that what we gravitate toward can give us an indication of what we're missing in some of the other pieces, which is why it's in that vital sign part of the book.

But we really have to pause and say, am I expecting this thing to perform a minor miracle? Or am I helping it do what it needs to do in the body? And we talk about how to choose some better formulas and potentially work with somebody who is spending the time to do the research, because more expensive doesn't mean better. At the same time, there's omega-3s, for example. I have people.

who show me the omega-3 that they're taking. And when we look at what's an ⁓ effective therapeutic dose, that bottle that they thought was going to last them a month starts to last them three to five days. And now all of a sudden, the thing that was so cost effective isn't really. And so again, it comes back to how much research and information are we willing to do?

who can we bring into our team or listen to or whether here on a podcast or somebody else who is doing that research to help us make these choices. And there are some fundamentals that are helpful for everyone. And there's a lot of nuance and a lot of individuality that

When we listen to what our friend is taking or buy the thing that we saw the commercial about, we may not necessarily really be doing ourselves the service we think we are.

Natalie Tysdal (21:30)

Yeah, well, and there's so much in marketing that can sway us that is the example like you gave, you're not gonna ice plunge your way to sleep. Like there's no magic one thing. I love that about what you said that it's the compounding effect, right? It's doing all the things, not all like overwhelming, but just having good habits.

Jenn Trepeck (21:43)

Yeah.

Exactly. And recognizing it also takes time to build habits. We expect ourselves to flip a switch and instantly, potentially even be a different person. That's not really how this works. So it's a piece of stepping back and saying, what am I even really expecting of myself? And how can I be on the same team as my body instead of constantly trying to fight it?

Natalie Tysdal (22:03)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (22:28)

And that's when everything starts to change and wellness doesn't feel so overwhelming and complicated. It's more of, like I said before, like this dialogue and kind of a bob and weave and a recognition that like, wow, this day was wildly out of control. And I'm doing everything I possibly can and that's all I can expect of myself.

Natalie Tysdal (22:51)

Yeah. So you have a section of the book. love this because there are some common questions that people have where they're like, but what about, and tell me about some of those, those common things that we just, we asked, we, we think we know, we don't necessarily know what are some of those.

Jenn Trepeck (23:00)

Right.

Coffee is a big one. I know we started talking about coffee before. So it's a nuance. So especially for women, it's, ⁓ I say this to everybody, ⁓ no coffee before food. Coffee with food, fine. But we're not, and by the way, coffee is sort of, it's caffeine, right? That amount of caffeine to start our day before proper fuel.

Natalie Tysdal (23:11)

Okay, good or bad, what is it?

Jenn Trepeck (23:38)

before any hydration is contributing to a lot of the fatigue and lack of energy and then trouble sleeping that we're experiencing.

So it's not so black or white. It's about saying, well, how do I respond? Am I noticing these things? And what happens if I play with this a little bit? What happens if I spend the next couple weeks not having caffeine before food? Am I sleeping better? Is my energy better at 3 o'clock? Am I?

tired at an appropriate time in the evening instead of ready to fall asleep for the night at 6, 30 or 7 and then wide awake at 11 PM or midnight, and starting to see how we respond. So coffee is one where it's very individual. And even if there are some health benefits of some caffeine or bitters from coffee,

and things like that, we really need to evaluate it on the whole of is it contributing to adrenal fatigue because that stress really... ⁓

kind of creates a house fire that maybe the help of the bitters from the coffee isn't really, you know, gonna outweigh.

Natalie Tysdal (25:06)

Yeah, yeah. I imagine many of the things in the what about section are nuances. Like not all bad.

Jenn Trepeck (25:12)

Yes. Yes. Although then

there's like rice cakes and oatmeal, which are ones where, you know, because back in the day when everybody was told to eat less, move more, which PS is not how the body works, you know, rice cakes are quintessential empty calories. And so

If we really want to eat our rice cakes, by the way, do you really want to eat them or have you just decided that you like the styrofoam tasting crunchy thing because it was so few calories or Weight Watchers points or whatever it was along the way, right? So you know, if we're going to choose to have them, what are we having with them to balance those carbohydrates? So that our body doesn't end up in this blood sugar spiral.

Natalie Tysdal (25:52)

Yes.

Jenn Trepeck (26:07)

or roller coasters, probably a better analogy than spiral. And then, right, do we really want them? How do we have them? How do we sort of have them in a proportion where it doesn't necessarily have the same impact as it might otherwise? ⁓ And oatmeal is another one where, know, the American Heart Association and, you know, our grain farmers, but truth be told, it is ⁓

Natalie Tysdal (26:22)

Yeah.

Jenn Trepeck (26:36)

for most people not so helpful when it comes to metabolic health, cardiovascular health, blood sugar balance. It's not this powerful breakfast that we've been told it is.

Natalie Tysdal (26:50)

Yeah, but instead protein first thing in the morning? mean, what would you say then is the answer to that?

Jenn Trepeck (26:58)

Yes, so anytime we eat protein, fiber, quality fat. So my favorite breakfast is actually a breakfast salad. And everybody hears this and they're like, seriously, go away. And just hear me out and do it once and see how you feel. It's going to feel weird having these foods at breakfast, but it's not totally weird. Like people have had a vegetable omelet, also a great choice.

Natalie Tysdal (27:26)

Sure.

Jenn Trepeck (27:29)

But breakfast salad, whatever greens you have in your house, throw a few handfuls in the bowl. Whatever other vegetables you have, chop them up, throw them in the bowl.

⁓ Cook your eggs, leaving the yolk still runny.

the runny yolk becomes a creamy salad dressing. So then you put the eggs on top of the salad, cut them up. I like to add sometimes nutritional yeast for a little more protein in that cheesy flavor. I almost always add everything but the bagel seasoning because then that gives us that breakfast bagel flavor that so many people enjoy. And then if you want, you can add a little bit of vinegar or whatever.

Natalie Tysdal (27:52)

you

Hmm.

Jenn Trepeck (28:18)

Mix that up, eat it. My energy, my mental clarity. So the eggs are warm, the rest of it's cold. So it kind of, you know, it's a mix. Yeah. I mean, you could do some cooked vegetables on top of the greens or cooked veg, you know, change it up. If it's winter and you want cooked things, do cook things. But I'm also the queen of like, I make food, I don't cook.

Natalie Tysdal (28:21)

Is Is it warm? So, raw vegetables. Some carrots, some salad, whatever. Okay.

Jenn Trepeck (28:46)

And so making food to me is throwing things in a bowl. I can do that part. But try it. Let me know how it feels. I know. Yeah. And by the way.

Natalie Tysdal (28:55)

I'm now I'm hungry for it. That's sounding really good. Yeah. Do you fry the egg

and let the ⁓ yolk go runny? you just put it in a frying pan?

Jenn Trepeck (29:04)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And for what it's worth for everybody, a proper serving of protein at a meal for a biologically female body is four to six ounces. For a biologically male body, it's six to eight ounces. So that's your whole hand at a meal.

Natalie Tysdal (29:25)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Trepeck (29:28)

An egg is an ounce of protein. So when everybody's eating, or we're having three eggs, but the nutritional yeast or maybe some breakfast sausage added in there is giving us the rest of that protein so that we're getting to four to six ounces at the meal. A snack for everybody is two to three, which is like your palm or a little less than your palm.

Natalie Tysdal (29:33)

So you need four of those. Yeah. Wow.

Jenn Trepeck (29:57)

So if we start to eat in that way, we see a whole lot of other things start to shift too. And now nighttime eating is easier. Better cravings seem to magically disappear. So there's so much that happens.

Natalie Tysdal (30:18)

Yeah, that, okay, well, I'm gonna be trying this. I might even try it for lunch. That sounds really good. But what a great breakfast. And then you have that energy coffee after or with that breakfast. That sounds great. Okay, give me one more of your but what abouts that people commonly ask.

Jenn Trepeck (30:24)

Yeah!

All

right, I'm gonna look to find one. Let's see.

We talk about... I'm gonna give you a few... ⁓ Let's see.

Some of these are diet things. SIBO is a good one. So I talk about how we hear about it all the time, or we hear about parasites all the time. And based on what we see on social media, you would think that like 90 % of the population is walking around with SIBO, by the way, is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Or like this.

wild, you know, problem or a parasite. And the truth is...

It's not as often as the internet would make us think. A lot of times the symptoms that mimic those symptoms are coming from something else. Certainly, the more plants we can eat, the more we can support our gut health, the more we can start to choose nutrition choices that support overall human health, we can see an improvement in a lot of these other symptoms. And the

biggest piece of all of that is that the approach to remedying some of this is often an elimination diet. And then people attempt to live the rest of their life in an elimination diet, only eating a handful of things or not eating some things. And the truth is, an elimination diet is for a finite period of time.

to create a healing environment. And once we heal, the objective would be that we can go back to eating a lot of these foods. So I caution everybody. Now, there are a couple foods that don't agree with me, that when I eat them, I do not feel well. So ice cream, cashews, pistachios, and beets. Right?

Natalie Tysdal (32:36)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Some pretty healthy, generally healthy things for people, but you don't feel good when you eat them.

Jenn Trepeck (33:00)

Right. And I did a food sensitivities test years ago that ice cream wasn't on it, but I can tell you it does not agree with me. Right. But the cashews, beets and pistachios were on that list. So cut them out for period of time, added them back in and repeatedly, every time I had them, I would wake up the next day feeling like

and this is the only way I can describe it, but I would wake up the next day feeling like I drank an entire box of wine by myself. And like boxed wine, like cheap, gross, you know, wine that really, and it's like the worst headache. And so, okay, I'm just not going to eat those things. By the way, no matter what the news says, no matter what research tells us,

Natalie Tysdal (33:37)

Hmm.

Jenn Trepeck (33:58)

about cashews and pistachios, they're not a healthful choice for me. But that's also to say, I'm not cutting out every nut or not eating any quality fat because this one creates a challenge. So it's about finding that piece and then creating a healing environment and testing and experimenting so that we're not

continuing to over the course of our lives just keep eliminating foods to the point where we end up eating maybe three things. Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (34:35)

And I know people who do that. And

being in tune enough, mean, how many people wake up like that and then they don't go back and look, what did I have? And they start to make those connections ⁓ and they just keep eating the wrong things. So being in tune enough with your body, I'm hearing as kind of a theme in everything you're talking about.

Jenn Trepeck (34:55)

Yes, exactly,

for sure. And it's also interesting because even some of those symptoms can show up even up to three days later. And we often have this bias that it must be whatever happened right before. So it does make the argument for writing some of this stuff down or working with somebody who can help us draw those connections and find those patterns.

Natalie Tysdal (34:58)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. So much great information. I know the book is chocked with more. So ⁓ give us more information where we can find you and I will always put them in the show notes for people, but for those who want more.

Jenn Trepeck (35:36)

Yes, so Uncomplicating Wellness is the book. Wherever books are sold, easiest for a lot of people is Amazon, it's there. Kindle is also there. ⁓ Bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble, whatever makes you happy. My website is asalatwithasidafries.com. So the book is there, the podcast is there. Of course, wherever you're listening now, you can also check out Salad with a Sight of Fries, so.

All social media, I am at Gentrepic, J-E-N-N-T-R-E-P-E-C-K. And I love hearing from you, so please send a message. Like, it makes my day.

Natalie Tysdal (36:01)

I'm going to stop.

Well, Jen, thank you so much. You're always full of great information. enjoy talking to you every time that we have. And best of luck with the new book.

Jenn Trepeck (36:20)

Thank you so much, Natalie. Such a pleasure, always.

Natalie Tysdal (36:22)

All right, take care.