Why Stress From Clutter at Home Wears You Down | Katy Wells

Katy Wells (00:00)

But I think when I really got more serious about it was when I realized how it was impacting my health. And one of the classic studies found that women who describe their homes as either cluttered or messy have elevated levels of cortisol.

Natalie Tysdal (00:13)

The average American home has over 300,000 items in it, but what if I told you that each one of those is like a magnet for your attention?

Hi everyone, I'm Natalie Tysdal After nearly three decades as a journalist, I believe women should have clear, honest information to make decisions for themselves. I asked the questions here on the podcast that I know you are wondering about because I wonder about them, and I'm not gonna settle for easy answers or quick fixes.

My goal here is to always help you feel a little more in control, a little more like you. Even when you've gotten used to your own clutter, your mind still notices and it can quietly drain your energy, your focus, even your resilience day after day. It wears you down. Today's episode is about the connection between the stuff in your home and your nervous system. We are going to unpack why that cluttered countertop or messy drawer.

Actually, matters for your health and what you can do to reclaim your space without needing to become a minimalist or get rid of everything that you love. I don't want that for you, and I know that you don't want that. My guest is the expert, Katie Wells. She has spent years helping women make sense of their homes and let go of the excess that's holding them back. Instead of simple decluttering tips, Katie really understands the link between our environment.

And our stress level. She knows why identifying clutter is personal, what the research says about chronic stress and mess, and how small habits can bring peace back to our spaces. Katie also has a brand new book. It's called Making Home Your Happy Place: A Real Life Guide to Decluttering Without the Overwhelm. And I'm gonna link that in the show notes today.

People always ask me what I actually use. So I've put all kinds of resources on my website. It's my trusted resource page. It has the products and tools that I rely on from stress and nervous system support to sleep and hormones. Some of those links support the show, and you will find it at natalietysdal.com/trustedresources forward slash trusted resources. If this show helps you, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

My newsletter goes out every week with more tips and stories, and I'd love to have you join there as well. You can always find me and join the conversation on Instagram at Natalie Tysdal All right, it's time to get started with my guest today, Katie Wells.

Natalie Tysdal (02:44)

Katie, it's always so good to talk to you and I learn so much every time we talk. So how have you been?

Katy Wells (02:49)

I've been well, thank you. I'm just like so excited to be here and hang out. I love you, love your audience, love your mission. yeah, I mean clutter is my life.

Natalie Tysdal (02:55)

Thank you.

typically I'm talking all health topics. This is very much a health topic because

Katy Wells (03:02)

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (03:02)

when we live in a cluttered environment, I was just looking at my countertops this morning when I was making breakfast and I went, I need to declutter my kitchen countertops because it makes me crazy.

when I feel too much clutter. Why is that? What's going on on in our bodies when that happens?

Katy Wells (03:18)

the reality is that our brains, when they see things and a lot of the things you're referencing tend to be on surface areas, right? our kitchen counters, kitchen tables, some even our floor is a surface area. So any horizontal surface area spot, our brains read everything as like this visual noise and input. And and it reads it as do I need to make a decision on this? Right. And a lot of it is like the laundry that needs folding, the mail that needs opening. These are

Often things we need, use, and love, they're kind of just in process. And then there's like the true clutter, the broken stuff, just the excess, the unused, the unneeded. And it all files through your brain. And your brain has to work extremely hard with the more visual stimuli that is coming through your eyeballs. And it's kind of like having 200 tabs open on your computer. At some point, your computer, imagine that 200 tabs, I have like eight max. If I have over eight, my computer starts running slower. And I think we kind of feel like

I used to think this like clutter is a nuisance. Clutter, yeah, kind of stresses me out, but it's an

easy, in some sense, can to kick down their own and procrastinate about. But I think when I really got more serious about it was when I realized how it was impacting my health. And one of the classic studies came from UCLA many years ago and found that women who describe their homes as either cluttered or messy have elevated levels of cortisol. So normally our cortisol is high in the morning as it should, and then it kind of goes down.

But women in the study, again, dealing with clutter and mess, that cortisol stayed high. So elevated levels of cortisol that never get a chance to come down so your body can recover. So I mean it can lead to a whole host of health issues, which one doesn't always connect the dots when it comes to clutter, right? So fatigue, uh brain fog, check, check, you know.

Mental clutter, um hard time making decisions. What's for dinner? When you are standing in a cluttered kitchen with 8,000 things on the surfaces that are screaming for your attention and you have to decide what's for dinner, guess what's the we we tend to go for the path of low hanging fruit. I'll forget

Natalie Tysdal (05:19)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (05:19)

it. I'm just gonna eat out again tonight, even though I swore I wouldn't, because it's so overwhelming. And so it can lead to a lot of different health issues for a lot of different people if that cortisol never gets

you know, never gets a chance to come back down as as they as our bodies were designed to.

Natalie Tysdal (05:33)

Yeah, and it it's interesting that sometimes we we have a lot of clutter and we don't see the clutter. You know,

Katy Wells (05:40)

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (05:40)

we're used to it. And then I walk into someone else's house or into an office environment or somewhere, I see all their clutter. But why is it that we don't see it, but yet it registers as stressful to us?

Katy Wells (05:52)

Yeah. So our brains, again, we're wired for survival. There's something called the reticular activating system. Basically it's like, um, it's exactly what you're describing. Our bodies get used to our environments. And if we've had clutter or extra mess around for an extended period of time, our brain can scan the environment, but it can also go, This is not threatening, this isn't urgent, we can kind of, you know, focus on other things like cooking dinner or something.

same reason like maybe you have a fridge that hums and you don't notice it anymore, but your friend who comes over is like, what's that sound? And you're like, what? I'm so used to it. Our brain learns to kind of like siphon it out a little bit, but it's still happening in the background, right? Just like having the 200 tabs open on our on our phone. It's gonna, you know, deplete the battery whether we realize it or not.

Natalie Tysdal (06:42)

So let let's talk about what we can do about it. because as I'm using my kitchen as an example, I've got like three coffee pots. And sometimes I like using one and then sometimes I want the Nespresso machine and so and I walk in, I think, which one do I want? And then other times I walk in and I think, I'm so tired of seeing three. These need to go away. So that's a example of what you're saying is it's creating a stress on me, even though um, you know, I'm kind of using all of them.

Katy Wells (07:09)

You love coffee.

Natalie Tysdal (07:11)

And sometimes I feel like an espresso. Sometimes I just wanna be lazy and the regul but why what do we do about that? What would you tell me? If you came into my kitchen, how would you help me? That's just an example of what what people get used to.

Katy Wells (07:22)

Yeah.

Yeah. I would say if it's a if it's a recurring issue, let's just say five days out of seven, it's more frustrating and annoying and burdensome to have three options than not. We have to key in on the patterns. I always tell my clients, like, put on your detective glasses. Okay. Just be just be curious and just be honest. Like write it down. Now, if it were like, okay, once a month, or maybe on a day where you're I feel like this happens to everyone. You're it's just a day you

are maybe more triggered by mess and clutter and all of a sudden the coffee machines, which you love most days, feel like problematic. Sometimes we're just kind of grasping for things. So if it's is it a recurring thing for you? Is it like more often than not you're annoyed by it?

Natalie Tysdal (08:03)

I'm more often than not annoyed by it. But it's also like I've got one I like. My husband likes the cure egg, which I don't like. And then I've got the so yeah, it bothers me because it's clutter.

Katy Wells (08:13)

Well, right. Clutter is in the eye of the beholder, right? So I used to not drink coffee and my husband had a coffee maker out and I really hated it. And for years I was like, this

Natalie Tysdal (08:23)

Okay.

Katy Wells (08:23)

is so annoying, it's cluttered. But to him, it was like his favorite thing on the planet. Once

Natalie Tysdal (08:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Wells (08:27)

I started drinking coffee, I was like, my gosh, this isn't clutter. Nothing

Natalie Tysdal (08:30)

Now I understand. Yeah.

Katy Wells (08:31)

changed physically about the object, but the meaning I assigned to it and how I rate clutter. I was, you know, I was using this, I was gaining benefit from it.

So, one idea perhaps if your husband is open to it, would be ask him if he would maybe want to put his Keurig somewhere else. Believe it or not, this is crazy. I actually have lots of clients that put their Keurigs or coffee makers like in their bedrooms, if they like to drink coffee in there or like in their bathroom while they get ready for the day. I know it sounds crazy to some people, but I'm just throwing it out as an option. Um,

Natalie Tysdal (08:59)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (08:59)

and then the other part is perhaps rotating the other two. So really you're using two of the three options on a fairly regular basis.

Maybe if you want to s sip coff maybe if uh I don't know, you know, sometimes there's a seasonality to like craving certain coffee types. but the reality

Natalie Tysdal (09:13)

Yeah, for sure.

Katy Wells (09:14)

is sometimes w you know, what we're dealing with here at the heart of it, Natalie, is a shared space. And, you know, we have different shared things. My husband uses some things, I don't, vice versa, right? So it could just be acknowledging that while I don't particularly love this here.

Maybe there's no other better spot to put it. It makes sense to have it all grouped together and organized in that way. And it might not be my favorite thing, but I'm just gonna move past it and acknowledge it. Like I it's not something I can let go of. So that way your brain can then go, Okay, well what else can we control? What else could we let go of and simplify?

Natalie Tysdal (09:47)

Yeah. So you you just said, and I think this is important, clutter is in the eye of the beholder. And if it doesn't bother someone, they think, Well, I like all of the things out on my counter in my bathroom. I want my toothbrush and my makeup and my lotion and my that's clutter. R is it is it is is it okay or d is it in the back of someone's nervous system causing problems, even though all those things they use every day?

Katy Wells (10:13)

Yes, this is such a great question. So at the end of the day, it's so important to understand a couple different things. What we're talking about is your brain is processing things that are you are seeing in your home. So your brain can't necessarily tell the difference between like the home decor that you love and use, the coffee machine that you use and is super utilitarian, adds joy to your day, and other items on the surface area. Just think of it as all

Similar playing field, all visual input. It's the volume and excess that tips us into feeling stress. Number two, this is a huge part of it, is the meaning we assign this stuff. Now, in that study I mentioned, the UCLA study, women who describe their homes as cluttered or messy had elevated levels of cortisol. Well, think about it from like a 30,000-foot view, how culture treats us, particularly women and mothers, how it

makes us feel if we struggle with something that or we feel shame about something like my ho my house is a mess. I feel ashamed or frustrated by that can literally just be the meaning we assign stuff is also so it's not just the visual input and the nervous system aspect. It's also the meaning we assign things. Now if I look at the same pile of stuff on your bathroom vanity or my son's bathroom vanity and go, this is clutter.

And that means my son's gonna be a hoarder, and this means I'm a failure. I didn't teach him the right things. Like this is the it's the subconscious stuff that can also increase that stress. You know what I'm saying? So I think it's it's multifold, it's nuanced, it's layered. Um, but I think it's just getting to the root of that for every single person. Now, I know people who really do okay with those things on their bathroom counter. It doesn't bother them. So I think it's like again, is it personal or shared? And those are things.

that are supporting you, like your hair gel, whatever, your makeup. I tend to like to put these things in a bin that I can grab and go or put it in a drawer so it doesn't get in the way of my day and it doesn't create that visual excess, you know, that I, you know, when I'm spending time in a space. That's just really personal personal preference. But again, I think I think it's important to acknowledge the meaning we assign things also is gonna perhaps increase our stress over.

Natalie Tysdal (12:29)

Yeah. Well I the the word that came to mind as you were just talking was organized clutter. It can be organized, but is it still clutter and is that causing you? And I think you gave you gave me kind of a rule um that was how many times do you think about it? Even though you think it's organized, how many

Katy Wells (12:45)

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (12:46)

times does it just bother you and you're not realizing that is bothering me? Yeah.

Katy Wells (12:50)

Yes. Yeah. And then, you

know, my go to is okay, is it bothering me because there's too much? So is it true clutter? Is there a real amount of excess? Is it bothering me because there's a lack of organization? So again, I always start with decluttering first. We don't want to waste our time organizing clutter. It's just you're just shifting it around at the end of the day. So declutter, then we can assess through organize organizing, sometimes through systems and habits and

Setting up the environment to help support us in doing what we want to do anyway. Like that grab and go bin, I love those. I use them in my pantry for my vitamins. You spoke to the person who and I I love visual reminders, but there is something to be said about stuff landing on countertops. Let's just say you put vitamins, you're trying to start a new routine, health routine, you put them on your counter on your counter for a reminder.

Stuff attracts stuff. Just like gravity is a law. You jump up, we will come back down. You put something on your countertop, and I swear it just magnetizes other things to it. So

Natalie Tysdal (13:48)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (13:50)

if you need visual reminders and you're noticing it's also creating more visual noise that you don't want, use things like sticky notes, anything that you can put. you know, like I use alarms and things. It again, if it's problematic, uh,

Natalie Tysdal (14:06)

Yeah, yeah.

Katy Wells (14:06)

It's not always gonna

be that way. So again, this it it's totally nuanced and I know I kind of throwing lots of different ideas, but I think it's important to kind of play to your personality, your family, your lifestyle to make it um, you know, make it simplify in a way that can be really solve the problem and get to the root of it, which is what I'm all about.

Natalie Tysdal (14:25)

Well, and I I'm laughing at myself because I have a new vitamin and I wanted to remember to take it. So it's sitting on my kitchen counter with the coffee pots. And within two days, five other vitamins were sitting right by that new vitamin. And yet I have a bin in the pantry with my other vitamins. And so you're absolutely right. One thing, like the junk drawer, starts really simple and then all of a sudden it gets really full in the kitchen. So it's these it's these habits and the the

The reminder is so great and that has been life changing for me is to put a vitamin reminder on my phone. It goes off every morning after breakfast

Katy Wells (15:01)

Yes, same.

Natalie Tysdal (15:03)

around eleven and I can't turn it off till I take my vitamins. None of those need to be on the kitchen counter if I have it as a reminder, right?

Katy Wells (15:10)

Yeah.

Or like um simple things, like if you do have things in bin, again, I I there are people who just need visual and I think that's great. Clear bins can be more helpful. This is where labels I think are more helpful. it's not just about aesthetics, like you know, simple where you can look, get a quick inventory. Is you know, is that what I need? Is it located in there? And I think to what you said, you know, when we set things on surface areas.

Your whole family, all when they see like my water bottle, they're like, it's a little permission slip that I can just dump my stuff right next to it. And

Natalie Tysdal (15:42)

That's where I put water bottles. Yeah.

Katy Wells (15:44)

it's never gonna be a hundred percent gone. There is no cure, there is no, you know, Mary Poppins magic to make it go away. But there are absolutely things like you said, we talked about that can reduce that so that there's less kind of chasing after all the clutter and or mess that ends up on our surface areas every day.

Natalie Tysdal (16:02)

Yeah. Okay, give me some more tips. Some some things you would tell someone trying to tackle clutter for the first time. They're overwhelmed and and you know that I wanna do this, but oh no, I'd never mind, I give up.

Katy Wells (16:15)

Yes.

Yeah. Number one, we have to understand that we are so intricately connected to our physical environments. Um, hopefully, you know, talking about the nervous system helps us realize like the stakes are higher than just aesthetics, right? We it's really about our whole body, it's about our health, it's about our environment and connection. But speaking to being connected to our environments, our environments can either support us in the habits that we want to do to pursue these goals, like simplifying, decluttering, and organizing.

Or our environments can make it harder. So one simple thing that the simplest tweak that low-hanging fruit everyone should start with is having a permanent donation station somewhere that's number one visible and number two accessible inside your home. If you have a multi-level home, ideally one on each level. And this goes to the saying of everything in your home should have a home. We've all heard that. I used to roll my eyes at that years ago. I was like, wow, everything should have a home. But

If when we run across clutter in our everyday, we're making dinner, the coffee's brewing, we have two minutes, we're putting d clean dishes away. These are we have hundreds of these moments and seconds where spot clutter, spot clutter. But we think, well, I don't have time to declutter right now. So what happens? Nothing. Nothing happens. The clutter builds. We only get busier. You know, we know how the story ends. Having a permanent donation bin nearby means that 30 seconds or two minutes while the coffee brews, boom, three.

Coffee mugs out of my cabinet that I didn't have time for a big purge. You don't need a big purge. And if you have the environment, again, do the heavy lifting for you by being that visible, accessible reminder. Now you put it immediately into the donation station and it bypasses procrastination. And procrastination is a predictive factor for clutter accumulation. So it completely just stomps that out. It's a non, it's a non-issue for so many people. It is game-changing.

Um, and if you are working through a particular space, let's say, I really want to do a big purge in my closet, or uh maybe I don't know, my kid left for college and I want to reclaim that room, have one temporarily but you know, permanently in there and do 20 minutes a day. I I do what I call 25 to thrive, where you set a timer for 20 minutes. That first 20 minutes is really just focusing on decluttering. And then the last five minutes is an opportunity to

bag things up, put things back where they belong that you find maybe that need to live in other locations. And then why I pick 25 minutes, and you can always go longer, but 25 minutes really falls in the sweet spot of making sure that we're making effective decisions because after about 30 minutes, most of us start getting less effective. Decision fatigue kicks in, right? Speaking to how we're wired. And at minimum we need a break. Go take a water break, get a breath of fresh air.

Look outside, then come back to it. But I always find that for a lot of my clients, they just knock out so much in that 25 minute window. It's you know, once a week, or of course, if you have more capacity, do more to work through a space. But doing what I call these clutter audits, which is where you're noticing clutter throughout your normal routine, tossing it in your donation station, maybe one to four, twenty-five to thrives a month is plenty.

No matter how busy you are, no matter how much you have going on, to make such incredible progress. And when you tackle those surface areas, you feel so much better. That's why I love starting there. It's an instant visual facelift to your home. And like even talking about it, I'm like, I can breathe deeper. I'm picturing the before and after. Like I I feel better just talking about it. We've all experienced like where we clear everything off, we're like, like we have a physiological response.

So there's always the flip side. Yes, clutter and mess can stress us out, but we can we can control it. We can we can nip it in the bud. Even if we have messy uh, you know, husbands and kids or whatever, there are still things within our control we can do to reduce that so that we have less straw less stress hormone response, you know, uh more nervous system regulation. And just at the end of the day, I want to feel good in my house. We deserve

Natalie Tysdal (20:23)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (20:24)

peace and calm and control in our home.

Natalie Tysdal (20:27)

Yeah. I you know what I was thinking when you were saying that is clearing things off, you put them away. And then how many times do you realize months later, oh, I kind of forgot I had that? You don't, you might not even need it. Like I've probably used that in espresso of like two or three times in the last six months. But I just haven't wanted to get rid of it. And so I'm telling myself, like, let me just put it away and see if I really do want to keep it.

Katy Wells (20:50)

Yeah. You y you're right. If you have to open a drawer, walk across the room, open a drawer, pull it out, put it on the counter, plug it in, let's just say that's six steps, you're you will know pretty quickly if you want it bad enough to do those because each step adds friction. And I you said something that I want to highlight too. Everything in our home has like it's either supporting us and helping us and adding to our life, right?

Or it's doing the opposite. There is no riding the wave. And I think you know the answer is probably to let this go. But I want to give your listeners and maybe you some kind of go-to guideposts, rules that might help support them in making these decisions. My number one decision I use as I'm doing these clutter audits, moving through my day, cleaning, organizing, cooking dinner, taking care of the kids, whatever, is have I had the opportunity to use this in the last six months? Now for you.

Maybe you could shrink that to three months, but tends to be six months for me. That's I feel like a sweet spot. It's not have I used this? It's not how much did this cost? It's not did this spark joy? Have I had the opportunity to use this? Because if the opportunity came and I didn't, that speaks louder than than any other objection. My brain will throw at me. Why didn't I use it? Right? Sometimes this night, well, why didn't I use it? I actually hate this thing. I don't like the way the coffee tastes. I prefer this other thing.

So then you go, okay, now making a mental note, I can sell this, donate it, whatever, but I'm also, I don't need to repurchase one of these in the future. And I think

Natalie Tysdal (22:21)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Wells (22:23)

asking the right questions to gain clarity is super, super important because clutter lives in confusion. Clutter thrives in like, I don't know what to ask, or I I can't think right now. Just ask that one simple question throughout your day. Have it kind of going in the background in a good way, not like a whoo, what do I have to?

It is so helpful. It just helps cut through the rest.

Natalie Tysdal (22:45)

That is so good. I'm gonna use that a lot. Have I had the opportunity? I've had the opportunity, and yet it still just sits there. So that

Katy Wells (22:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (22:52)

brings me to we hold on to things for weird reasons, all kinds of reasons. Not always weird, but someone gave it to me. Or it's really here's a big one. It's really expensive. I

Katy Wells (23:03)

Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (23:03)

better hold on to or I'm gonna sell it, but you never get around to sell it. You know, the Facebook marketplace or the whatever. And so it's just sitting there waiting for me to sell it. How do you

How do you get around that? Because that's why people hold on to a lot of things.

Katy Wells (23:16)

Yeah. So what you're calling is, you know, in psychology referenced as the endowment effect. And we all tend to really overvalue anything we own more than it's actually monetarily worth. And actually there are studies that show the longer you own something, the more like it increases in monetary value. Um this really interesting study. So imagine having parents like a lot of us, you know, in their seventies and eighties and nineties who've had all this stuff for their lifetime. And no wonder it's so hard for

For them to let go. Um, a lot of reasons for that, but endowment effect is one of those. So I think the reality is we all have to play to our season and our capacity. There are so many different seasons in life. My season when my kids were two and three looks different than it does today at nine and eleven, but we all have certain amounts of time and energy. So if you really want to sell something, put it on your calendar. You know, the path of look.

low-hanging fruit for most of us is like Facebook Marketplace if you're already on Facebook. Um and I always suggest to my clients, have your bot like what is an hour of your worth, what is an hour of your time worth? Most people don't think about that. They're like, I don't know, I don't know, like $100, $200, right? What does that look like? So if if you decide on a certain number, assuming it takes roughly an hour to get something out of your house, which

Responding to sellers, taking pictures, researching what it sells for, not what you paid for it, but what you can get out of it, right? Just those steps. I hear people thinking, it's already too much. The question is the answer. You know the answer. Just let it go. You will feel better getting it out of your house.

Natalie Tysdal (24:54)

And you'll probably never think of it again.

Katy Wells (24:56)

You never have to think of it ever again. This is the return, one of the returns we're talking about. The mental piece of it. my gosh, I I decide once and I get it out and never again.

There isn't this, I put the Instapot or the crock pot or the Nespresso machine in the garage to sell later. And every time I walk past it every day, I remind me of something on my to-do list. The mental liberation and freedom we gain from getting physical material possessions out of our house, that is huge. The energy that we get, I boom. So for me, that number is high. For me right now, it's like $100. If I can get, if not that I paid.

a hundred dollars for something. If I can reasonably get something for a hundred dollars, I will spend the time selling it. I typically use Facebook Marketplace. Um but I think you just ha

Natalie Tysdal (25:43)

Yeah. But anything under that, the little things,

you're you're right. Like you could spend hours on a ten, twenty dollar item and then it and actually

Katy Wells (25:49)

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (25:50)

it would be more than an hour because you probably put it off and had it like you mentioned, walked by it so many times that it has

Katy Wells (25:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (25:56)

occupied your mind that many times.

Katy Wells (25:58)

Yeah. And the reality is a lot of people, it's like, well, I don't want to feel wasteful. You know, I

Natalie Tysdal (26:02)

Usually.

Katy Wells (26:02)

spent maybe it was an intentional, it doesn't matter if it was an intentional someone else gave it to you or it was an impulse purchase. The the the waste we're so afraid of when it comes to decluttering already happened when we brought it into our home. And I think so many of us think, Well, think I supposed to keep things forever. But speaking to the seasons of life, we have

Different needs. So clutter to me, my definition of clutter is anything that isn't actively supporting me, my lifestyle, or my goals. Okay. So that is my North Star. And that question we talked about, have I had the opportunity to use this in the last six months? tends to kind of dovetail really beautifully with that. So

Natalie Tysdal (26:43)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (26:44)

understanding what clutter is to you, and I think once we get just super clear on it.

questions like how do I sell it? How do I like all of that kind of fades away because we're like, we just know. We know in our hearts and just being able to make that decision. And sometimes it does feel great to recoup some money, but you know, I I know plenty of people. I've met plenty of families locally and other that love being able to go to Goodwell or a charity shop, right? And, you know, pick up things that you no longer need. So there is definitely an aspect of just understanding that

Someone will likely end up using this Nespresso pot or whatever that's stressing you out, right? And y bothering you every single day. And they get to it truly sparks joy for them. And I think sometimes we forget that piece of it. And that tends to help override the monetary piece. But the money's been gone. The money's been gone for years.

Natalie Tysdal (27:36)

Yeah, yeah. Well, the peace of mind and the balance in your nervous system is really um

Katy Wells (27:41)

Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (27:42)

what I wanted to focus on today because I think we discount that and you so beautifully highlight how it just gives you calm and then it allows you to do other things, to spend time with your kids. you know, to create that new business you have been putting off, or to exercise, whatever those things are by letting go of the stress that you don't even realize is sitting there in your body.

Katy Wells (28:02)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly right. So the average American home has over three hundred thousand items in it. And I'll we'll end with this, but I'll we'll end on a high note. I know that's jarring and I probably have mentioned it on your show before. Three

Natalie Tysdal (28:13)

I'm starting to count.

Katy Wells (28:16)

hundred thousand items. So instead of looking at those items as just like items, let's call them magnets for your attention. So the average American home has over three hundred thousand magnets for your attention. Doesn't that hit a little bit different? Doesn't that

Natalie Tysdal (28:29)

Well

Katy Wells (28:30)

make you go, man.

All right. All right, game on. Roll up your sleeves a little bit. And just

Natalie Tysdal (28:35)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (28:35)

like you said, at the end of the day, it's about what we gain back. There is not much else, in my humble opinion, that gives so much of a return on our time, our energy, our health, our mental health, on our peace, on our control, on all these different aspects like decluttering. And it's because we're wire our brains are wired to crave order and peace. So give it to ourselves. And you can do that by

Decl putting two things in your donation station. You can do it, you know, 25 minutes, an hour, whatever. But if you are making progress, you are always getting a return back. Things you declutter today, you're you're gonna be feeling, you know, the still positive impact weeks and months down the road. And this is ultimately clutter gets in the way of connection, connection with yourself, your fit your health, your mental health, but your your loved ones, your hobbies, your passions, your pursuits, your God given talents. And

Natalie Tysdal (29:28)

Yeah.

Katy Wells (29:29)

so

Anu some of us, you know, listening just need to say enough is enough and just get started and that momentum will oftentimes just feed itself and you will feel so much better and that will make you want to keep going.

Natalie Tysdal (29:41)

And sometimes it's just turning on a podcast. That's what I find is occupying my mind while I'm doing it. And then

Katy Wells (29:44)

Amen. Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (29:47)

I'm not thinking about it so much. I'm just busy and I I love

Katy Wells (29:49)

That's it.

Natalie Tysdal (29:50)

that's my favorite way to listen to podcasts is cleaning. Yeah. Katie, thank you so much.

Katy Wells (29:55)

Thanks for having me. So glad to be back.